Publishing my book

[LadyHitchhiker]

So I was looking for some pointers about publishing my book, and thought this might be a good place to post, if not, if someone could move this thread to where it belongs, I would greatly appreciate it.

I recently was contacted by an agency who is interested in representing me. The thing is, that they require a critique before we move forward. Is this a normal request from a company? I'm pretty sure I need an agent if I want to take my book to be published, unless I were to self-publish - which I can't afford at this point, and would not accomplish what I'm wanting to accomplish which is wide-spread publishing.

Anyone have any experience? Tips? Anything?

Thanks so much for your time and effort!

[Bev Vincent]

Beware of any agency that wants to charge you money up front for anything. Critiquing, editing, photocopying expenses--anything. Agents make their money after they sell your book to a publisher, not before.

It is not unusual to go through revisions with an agent who takes you on as a client, but this is all done on speculation on his/her part.

You should never write an agent a check. He or she will receive payment from your eventual publisher and take their cut, then send you a check.

[LadyHitchhiker]

They asked for me to pay a third person party for a critique. I don't know. Is that normal? They've repeated constantly that they will not charge any fees, but then they asked me to pay someone else to critique my book before we were to move forward. Is this a normal request? I was under the impression that one found an agent, and then they found the publisher, and then we worried about the editing, etc.,. I mean, I could pay the money to critique the book, and then end up having to get it edited again by the publisher, changing it drastically? Is that my understanding?

I'm just really confused and want to make sure I do the right things when it comes to publishing. This book means a lot to me. It's my book about my cat Linus and his disease of tooth resorption. If this gets published right, this book could make a HUGE difference in the world. There are patents out there for the disease just waiting for funding, and with enough exposure, perhaps the cure will come so people, dogs, and cats don't have to suffer from this disease!

This agency said that they will never ask for money, and that after I'm published, and only then, they will take 10% of the profits. Is that a fair amount? Is that normal?

So many questions....

[flaggwalkstheline]

a critique huh?
sounds a bit like a vanity press in disguise
10% is semireasonable but the whole "critique" thing sounds fishy
basically if they ask for money to publish you, thats not good, some companies are up front about it, self publishers that you pay so they send you copies of your book to peddle about yourself, authorhouse and such, but if that's not been made obvious then I suggest trying to figure out what their angle is

[Bev Vincent]

They asked for me to pay a third person party for a critique. I don't know. Is that normal?

No, that's not normal. Well -- it's a normal SCAM. The third party is probably someone secretly affiliated with them. Run away from this agent. Fast.

[LadyHitchhiker]

Thanks flagg and Bev... guess I gotta start doing more digging on finding an agent.

How do I know when I have a good one? How do I find a good one? I don't want to get scammed.

[Bev Vincent]

I was under the impression that one found an agent, and then they found the publisher, and then we worried about the editing, etc.,. I mean, I could pay the money to critique the book, and then end up having to get it edited again by the publisher, changing it drastically? Is that my understanding?

It used to be that most editing was done with the publisher's editor. However, the model has shifted in recent years. The agent and the author go through an intensive editing process to get the manuscript ready to be submitted to editors at publishers. At the agent panel I attended last weekend, one agent said that he is looking for the manuscript's Achilles Heels--the things that editors will use as an excuse to reject a submission from an agent.

The way things work these days in a best case scenario:

1) Write book
2) Write synopsis and query letter
3) Query agents
4) If an agent agrees to represent the manuscript
5) Revise the manuscript and get it ready for submission to a publisher
6) A publisher agrees to acquire the book. Negotiations ensue. Contracts are signed.
7) Another round of revisions, with the editor this time
8 ) Copy-edits, proofing, line edits
9) Publication!

All of the above editing processes don't cost you a penny. If you think your manuscript needs editing before you send it to an agent, join a local or online writer's group and pass it around to other people for feedback. Again, free!

[Bev Vincent]

How do I know when I have a good one? How do I find a good one? I don't want to get scammed.

Check them out in books like Publishers Marketplace, research them at Preditors and Editors (http://pred-ed.com/). Publishers Marketplace should be available in the library if you don't want to buy a copy. It will help you identify agents who represent the kind of book you have and will save you from sending it to someone who doesn't take on your kind of project.

[Bev Vincent]

This agency said that they will never ask for money, and that after I'm published, and only then, they will take 10% of the profits. Is that a fair amount? Is that normal?

Yes, 10% is normal, though 15% is becoming the new normal. My agent gets 15% and he's worth every penny. He's earned his income back by getting increased advances, preserving certain rights, etc.

[LadyHitchhiker]

Do you happen to know any good online writing groups that are worth getting involved in?

And so you're saying it's not abnormal to have a reference for a critique before I move forward?

Gee, I thought writing the book was the hard part! That was a breeze! Now to find someone to represent my work! :)

[Bev Vincent]

Do you happen to know any good online writing groups that are worth getting involved in?

And so you're saying it's not abnormal to have a reference for a critique before I move forward?

Gee, I thought writing the book was the hard part! That was a breeze! Now to find someone to represent my work! :)

I'm not really up on critique groups any more, I'm afraid.

I'm saying that it's a popular scam for shady agents to refer you to their buddy's editing service. You'll end up paying thousands of dollars with no guarantee that the manuscript will be any more publishable than before you sent it to them. These agents will probably get a kick-back from the editor, which de-incentivizes them to market your book--they've already made some money off you, indirectly. If they do send out your manuscript, it will probably not be to the kinds of publishers you want.

[LadyHitchhiker]

Well I must say that the WB agency would be sorely disappointed with me. I don't have thousands of dollars! I don't even have A thousand dollars! LOL

I'm glad I came here for clarification. I really didn't want to spend my hard-earned money on my quest, or at least not frivolously. I didn't want my quest to blind me to the opportunities I should be pursuing just because someone sent an e-mail with some pretty words that made me feel good, if that makes sense. :)

[Bev Vincent]

It makes perfect sense -- that's exactly the emotion these agencies are preying on.

[LadyHitchhiker]

I truly appreciate you spending the time to answer questions, Bev. It really means a lot to me. I know you happen to be a tiny bit experienced in this field ;) so your advice is like gold! :D

[Bev Vincent]

You might find my essay on Storytellers Unplugged of interest: The Agent Panel (http://storytellersunplugged.com/blog/2010/04/17/the-agent-panel/)

[WeDealInLead]

Have you considered self-publishing through a print-on-demand website/publisher? Warren Ellis published "Shivering Sands" that way. He did it through Lulu and from the pics of the book I've seen, it actually looks pretty good. Some of those websites have a deal with Amazon too so your book would show up on there.

[Candice Dionysus]

Good luck! <3 I wish I could offer some advice, but I chose the self-publishing route. XD

[Canada]

To everyone: I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but this website is a great resource detailing the different kinds of publishing, vanities, pay-for-critiques (and edits), scams, how-to's, and more.

http://www.sfwa.org/for-authors/writer-beware/

(The best stuff is along the first left panel)

[Jon]

Lady...I have had a friend burned by such a scam...and the "Anthology" scam as well.

Canada...thanks for the link.

[Bev Vincent]

Have you considered self-publishing through a print-on-demand website/publisher? Warren Ellis published "Shivering Sands" that way. He did it through Lulu and from the pics of the book I've seen, it actually looks pretty good. Some of those websites have a deal with Amazon too so your book would show up on there.

Having a book show up at Amazon doesn't make potential readers aware of it. I strongly recommend against self-publishing. It's a dead-end route for most aspiring writers. It skips one of the most important parts of the process: editorial review and revision, and it puts the onus for marketing and publicity on the author, who has no platform or experience, instead of on the publisher.

[herbertwest]

Thanks for the output Bev... and i'll retweet your article.

If one have a book that he wants to publish. I guess that it's better to get an agent right? Or finding a publisher without an agent is possible (but on the other hand, they'll want to screw you over the royalty fees and this kind of thing?)

[Bev Vincent]

It's very difficult to find a publisher without an agent. However, if you do, it then becomes much easier to find an agent to negotiate the deal.

[flaggwalkstheline]

the only way self publishing works is if one orders copies and travels around selling them

one of my friends is doing this and it's getting more and more tempting

[CurtSeattle]

After a lifetime of wanting to be a writer, but getting sidetracked, I decided last week to give it a go.

I have always devoured books and felt I could write (me and a million other failed writers...hahaha!), but got sidetrackd with my law degree and countless other things (okay maybe excuses, but you know the drill).

Then I was wondering what the process is AFTER writing the book (which I have not done yet obviously :( ) and then...TA-DA!...here is wonderful information right on my favorite new site!

Cool!

I will (hopefully) be getting back for advice in the next year. Now on to the actual brainstorming/writing/finishing of the book. :(

I had a wonderful idea for a Science Fiction book, but the research was going to be a bit much for a 1st project, so back to my specialty (well after elves, goblins, trolls and the like which has been done and then some too many times) ...HORROR!

That's mainly on account of all of you getting me interested again in Stephen King and books again.

I will let you know if I give it up too.

I figure that will keep me motivated. I just need to block out time to force myself to write until I'm caught up in story myself I figure. We'll see.... I always say "time and truth walk hand in hand", so will see if the rubber meets the road with my dreams of writing compared to the reality of how much work it is.

:)

[Sam]

Having a book show up at Amazon doesn't make potential readers aware of it. I strongly recommend against self-publishing. It's a dead-end route for most aspiring writers. It skips one of the most important parts of the process: editorial review and revision, and it puts the onus for marketing and publicity on the author, who has no platform or experience, instead of on the publisher.

Re-read what Bev said above. I self-published a work for a small niche market, but in a market that still has publishers. Many others have self-published in this market and have done very well, but their names are mostly WELL known within the market group, whereas I am just another schlep on the corner. I wrote, edited, and published the book myself and had 100 copies printed in the original print run (as I said, a small market). The book has done well and has paid for itself. It helped me pay a few bills and paid for a book purchase or two. Beyond that, not much. Right now, after two years in print, I have about 30 copies left from the original print run and am honestly tired of having them in the house. I have considered selling the remaining stock to a warehousing company that may be interested in them, or I can hold on to them since I do have an order from time to time. Either way the onus is on me. I have done all the marketing, was responsible for getting the word out on the book, and had to pay for the entire printing bill for it. The good side was I got to set the layout, the print size, the fonts, and even the type of paper the book and cover were made of. I also got to pick my own artist for the cover art. Honestly though, I sort of wish I had consulted some of the publishers in the market instead because then I would KNOW if the book was really good enough to pass muster. I know people have liked it, because I have seen where they said so, but knowing your work was good enough for someone else to WANT to publish it? That's a hell of a thing and something you just won't get if you do it yourself.

[CurtSeattle]

You don't have to go into detail, but what's the book about, Sam? Just curious! Maybe I'll buy one to help out. :)

[Sam]

I appreciate the offer Curt, but it really is a niche book, not a collectible. It would be like someone who works in law enforcement buying a manual for the different uses for forceps in the medical field, ie. not worth much. Thanks for the offer though.:)

[LadyHitchhiker]

rereading everything that was written here as I am on my quest.

Thank you everyone and thanks Sam for the ideas about the small market. The thing is that I don't want to market my books to a small niche. I want to make as big as an impact as possible. Not for the glamor. Not for the money - unless by being richer will help me to help more people and animals. But as part of my mission to change the world for the better. Got Captain Kirk syndrome, and losing Linus to something that may be preventable in the future doesn't help diminish my own disease of charity.

I really want to make a difference.

[DoctorDodge]

That's certainly one hell of a good reason to get a book published, LH! I'm writing a book myself, but only because of a very selfish reason - writing down a story that I want to read. Will it ever get published? Not sure. Atm, with studying accounting and everything (substitute "everything" for "laziness") I'm really not sure. Still, nice to have some tips from a few people who have got their books published, just in case! Not to mention a few aspiring writers out there like me who are also going through the frustration of writing their first novel!

But it's definitely a good thing to really want to get a book published to help everyone. That's something I really can respect!

[LadyHitchhiker]

Thanks for the support and the kudos!

I have written a science fiction novel which is handwritten 658 pages. Wrote that one for fun but that one is on the back burner now. Still have to type it up and I'd much rather work on making a difference first. Sharing the fun fun stuff later.

[woodpryan]

Have you read Stephen King's "On Writing" yet. I highly suggest that you pick up a copy of that book. He gives a lot of advice on getting your work published. Also, you should pick up a "Writer's Market". They are a bit pricey, but well worth it. You need to get some short stories published in some magazines under your belt before you can get a novel published. This is because you need an agent to get your novel published and you need some credibility to get one. You can get published without one, but it's best to go about it this way. you want to crawl before you walk. I hope this advice is helpful.

[LadyHitchhiker]

I have never been able to successfully write short stories. I have written a lot of poetry and parodies, and I have a 658 page novel that has yet to be published on top of my non-ficiton, but how am I supposed to conjure up short stories to be published when that is not my forte?

[woodpryan]

but how am I supposed to conjure up short stories to be published when that is not my forte?

the best way to conjure short stories is to read short stories. If you don't read many, it is difficult to think of them, just as it is difficult (just about impossible) to think up novel ideas if you don't read novels. Pick up some King short story collections. Read some H. P. Lovecraft and some Shirley Jackson. That should be helpful. Pick up a copy of Fantasy and Science Fiction Magazin, Ellerly Queen, Asimov's, Writer's Digest, Reader's digest, I could go on (I'm the magazine specialist at Books a Million). There are tons of short stories out there. And most importantly, I suggest reading "On Writing", by Stephen King if you have not read it yet. That's the most important thing I can suggest. I wish you the best of luck.

[LadyHitchhiker]

I have tried to get published in animal magazines, but they all sound very interested in the beginning then lose contact with me. I really do want my book to be published and the sooner the better. I need to get Linus's story out. It's important.

[Jack Torrance]

A friend of mine got scammed like that. They asked for money up-front. He sank money into it, and then nothing. They just kind of fell off the face of the earth.


It was pretty sad. I mean it was a great novel too, now he doesn't want to publish it, and has no intention of ever doing so. Makes me sad to think scammers can cause issues like that. People decide not to publish because they got scammed, who knows they could have a #1 selling novel.

[Dave!]

Back when I was fervent on getting my first work published I was in your shoes. A literary company contacted me, wanted a synopsis, liked it, and wanted a bit more so I emailed it to them. They, of course, sent a reply stating that they felt it was marketable and promising, and then ensued the "literary fees" of having the work critiqued, then so on and so on. Sounds like the same scam I almost fell into. Luckily for me I got some good advice on here and didn't follow through with it. Plus the work needs more... work... I think before it is ready, in retrospect.
But good luck and I'm glad Bev and the gang were there to keep you from falling for it.
As far as any further advice, I have none, as my writing has been on the back burner now for a year. Guess it might be time to get back at it and see where the story takes me. Who knows, maybe 2010 might be the year I get my butt in gear and do a heavy agent search... but once again, good luck!