Roland - General discussion

[MacarDeschain]

This thought is very far from my thinking. I can't imagine Gan using anyone for anything... why would he? I can't imagine him as a puppeteer. IMHO if Gan gives us purposes he gives them to give goals and some meaning to our lives.

Why would he not use him, It would be like you not using your hand becueas you saw no use for it. Or you saw no use for breathing. No more purposes then just to live and is that not enough. Roland made his chooses and Gan just used it to help him self. Will him self and all liveing things.

[Jean]

Nikolett didn't create her hand as a separate being, endowed with immortal soul and the gift of free will... if she had, I think she would have denied herself the possibility to use it.

[MacarDeschain]

Yes you are right, but that does not mean she should not use it to save all of the rest of her body, even if her hand had a will of its own. This is why Roland is a hero. Yes has a will of his own, But Gan knows that Roland will make the right chose in the end. Because it is in Roland’s nature to do the right thing (just the hard Way). Gan knew this and relied on it. So used him to do this.

[Woofer]

[hpr7]

How Old is Roland?
Here is why I have doubts about Roland's age How is Sheemie Ruiz alive still?

[Ageless Stranger]

Have you finished the book? If not, don't read the sopiler.

Spoiler:

He's not. He dies in VII, after his purpose is served.

But to give my opinion on your question, I think he is quasi-immortal, just like Walter O'Dim and Roland himself.

[Letti]

Good question.
BUT we mustn't forget that Sheemie isn't just a simple human-being. He is one of the strongest breakers. He has great powers. Once Roland mentioned they didn't understand how Sheemie could catch up with Roland's first tet after they had left Mejis.
You cannot ask the age of the one who can open a hole in time/dimension (remember the gingerbread house?) and create their a special space where he can spend as much time as he wishes and in the moving world time stops.


Anyway in some days this thread will be moved this section: The Villagers

[Tik]

Susan herself thinks about this:

She though, But Rolands old....so old! Which means that if this is the tavern-boy he knew in Mejis....the one with the donkey and the pink sombrera hat....then he must also be....

The novel Black House may hold the answer. In that book, Parkus tells Jack that the Crimson King doesn't need to replace Breakers because they dont die - "they are kept in a place where there is essentially no time". Purgatory, which is exactly what Roland calls Algul Siento.

[ohdiscordia]

Ok, so I've read all of the books and I am going back but its driving me crazy because I want confirmation about what is Roland's most agonizing choice. HELP anyone?

[arrawyn]

i would say his most agonizing choice is in the Gunslinger when he

Spoiler:

let Jake fall

.

[lonely_cube]

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's

Spoiler:

when he leaves Susan and she dies.

[arrawyn]

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's

Spoiler:

when he leaves Susan and she dies.

but he didn't really have a direct choice in that he wasn't right there to be able stop that happening. with what i'd said, he was right there and had the choice to stop it or not.

with what you said, he could have made the choice to

Wizard & Glass spoiler

not leave susan. but they had all their own parts to play in the plan and they all knew what they had to do. Sure Roland is angry with the fact that Susan died and he wasn't there to stop it, and he blames himself for her death, but i think he more blames himself for letting jake fall because he deliberately chose the MIB over jake

.

[ohdiscordia]

Oh, well I think it was when

Spoiler:

Roland makes the decision to hypnotize Stephen King and the driver of the van (choosing the tower) instead of helping/comforting Jake as he is dyeing.

[arrawyn]

ohdiscordia - that's a good point! i was surprised at that really that he did that. but at the same time

book 7 spoiler

he did have irene or arlene or whatever her name is (sorry it's 5:30 in the morning!) there to keep jake company (and Oy). i wonder if it would've been different if they weren't there and it was just Roland. if Roland would STILL abandon Jake in favour of talking to King.

[Charyou Tree]

i would say his most agonizing choice is in the Gunslinger when he

Spoiler:

let Jake fall

.

This +10000

[pathoftheturtle]

Wizard and Glass

Deciding to seek the Dark Tower.
In the Glass, he was warned that this would cost him everything. He took that seriously, thus counting every loss thereafter as a result of his choice.
This is why Roland blames himself for Susan, illogical though it may be.

[lonely_cube]

Wizard and Glass

Deciding to seek the Dark Tower.
In the Glass, he was warned that this would cost him everything. He took that seriously, thus counting every loss thereafter as a result of his choice.
This is why Roland blames himself for Susan, illogical though it may be.

You know, that actually makes sense. I bet that's what it is.

[arrawyn]

Hi everyone,

Letti suggested we started a new thread on this topic as it was originally started in the forum specifically for 'The Drawing of the Three' but then got totally off topic with people referring to stuff in later books.

So the original question asked by Doncissiero was basically in one of the arguments its states that letting Jake fall in the first book is Rolands second most agonizing choice in his life....so what do you all think is his first?

He obviously has had to make tons of agonizing choices throughout his entire journey.

end of series spoiler!

and as is being discussed in another thread, most likely it is these agonizing choices (one? or all?) that he might have to do over again differently in the loops. the only one that he doesn't need to re-do is Susan. and this leads to another question Why?

[pathoftheturtle]

kk. Then I'll repeat here that Roland's most agonizing choice is the choice to seek the Tower. He didn't much agonize over it at the time, but did much agonizing over it ever after.

...

end of series spoiler!

... most likely it is these agonizing choices (one? or all?) that he might have to do over again differently in the loops. the only one that he doesn't need to re-do is Susan. and this leads to another question Why?

Why what?

Spoiler:

Why does he "have to" loop? you mean? Why does he "not need" to undo Susan's fate? What? Those questions raise lots of others to me, different enough to call for even more threads. To simplify, let me just ask this: he wouldn't be looping at all if he hadn't gone to the Tower, so did he have to do that? Yes? No? Well, does the loop mean that he has to cry off?

[Letti]

I'm gonna move the posts which belong here. Thank you for starting a new thread for them.

*edit
:done:

[LovesSweetExile]

This has always puzzled me, even more since reading the comics, does anyone have an actual idea of Rolands true age?

There has been hints he is over a thousand, three hundred, one hundred, early fifties even, at first I thought, yeah maybe it is possible he could be ancient, putting aside the fact that 'time is funny' due to some mystical power through his bloodline, also due its hinted that Steven is somewhat older than he seems, due to the fact that corts father also served him, which i picked up upon when Depape took 'the old bastard' for questioning, he obviously knew of Steven.

Yet, Sheb isn't special, and doesn't he meet him once again in Tull? so this would suggest Roland would be about forty in 'the gunslinger'

Even after his mystical experience with Flagg, Roland belives century's have past, but we know it was merely a trick.

The old people who live outside of Lud, even their ancestors were far past the time of Gilead and John Farson.

So my only conclusion can be that maybe time passes differently throughout mid world and end world, or there is some kind of mistake in the storyline, any thoughts?

[lonely_cube]

Well, they definitely don't say explicitly, but I always figured he was about 1500 years old, at least by the time he reaches Calla Bryn Sturgis. At various points in the series, and before it when Roland is chasing the Man in Black, time probably skips around Roland and the ka-tet (once he draws them) without anyone even noticing. For example, in W&G when Roland is telling his story, it appears to the ka-tet that it only took one night, although it was a long night. It's possible that around them, time kept passing as usual, and maybe even years went by while Roland was talking. This could have happened at virtually any point in time when the ka-tet is in an uninhabited area, since time could pass without them really noticing. Once they reach the Callas though, this couldn't really work anywhere except Empathica, since there were people pretty much everywhere by that point. So my guess is, Roland was born about 1500 years before he reaches Calla Bryn Sturgis, and he is probably about 50-60 physically.

[LovesSweetExile]

So your saying even though Roland ages naturally through actual time, he physically ages as normal? That kinda makes sense, I always assumed he had some kind of immortality due to his bloodline.

[Brainslinger]

I think time speeds up around him from time to time but I don't think the time he has actually experienced is any longer than someone of 40-60 years. (Yes I'm aware that's a big age difference. I'm that uncertain of how hold he actually is.)

As for that bit after his palaver with Walter, I'm really not certain how long he was asleep there. We know it was partly a trick by Walter, but I still got the impression a significant amount of time had passed, albeit perhaps not as long as it seemed. He seemed to age 10 years in that time period too, although whether that was due to the passage of time or shock when confronted with Walter's vision, I don't know.

[gsvec]

Also, in WotC, Roland realized that he actually went todash during his palaver with Walter.