Subterranean Press discussion thread

[T-Dogz_AK47]

It's not clear who got the first four. Bill Schafer in his long ago post here said:

We had ten signature pages left over, and had them bound with 217 debossed on the book's cover. Four of these copies, which will bear Roman numerals, are already intended for private collections. The plan is to auction the remaining copies, one per year, with all the proceeds -- we're eating the production costs, etc. -- going to The Haven Foundation.

So none of the ten has been put up for auction before, just four distributed for "private collections".

Kim says in the Camelot newsletter:

These have never been offered for sale. With a little deduction you should be able to figure out where the first four went and realize someone is probably going to have to die for those to make it to the secondary market.

So I don't think it was lifetime subscribers, as we wouldn't necessarily be able to guess who got them. I suspect they went to four people closely associated with the project.

HBJ

The first four copies would have certainly gone to the following:

I. Stephen King
II. Chuck Verrill (King's agent)
III. Vincent Chong (Artist)
IV. Bill Schafer

[webstar1000]

It's not clear who got the first four. Bill Schafer in his long ago post here said:

We had ten signature pages left over, and had them bound with 217 debossed on the book's cover. Four of these copies, which will bear Roman numerals, are already intended for private collections. The plan is to auction the remaining copies, one per year, with all the proceeds -- we're eating the production costs, etc. -- going to The Haven Foundation.

So none of the ten has been put up for auction before, just four distributed for "private collections".

Kim says in the Camelot newsletter:

These have never been offered for sale. With a little deduction you should be able to figure out where the first four went and realize someone is probably going to have to die for those to make it to the secondary market.

So I don't think it was lifetime subscribers, as we wouldn't necessarily be able to guess who got them. I suspect they went to four people closely associated with the project.

HBJ

The first four copies would have certainly gone to the following:

I. Stephen King
II. Chuck Verrill (King's agent)
III. Vincent Chong (Artist)
IV. Bill Schafer

I never fail to be amazed by your IQ. I would never have guessed that... but your totally right


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[Merlin1958]

It's not clear who got the first four. Bill Schafer in his long ago post here said:

We had ten signature pages left over, and had them bound with 217 debossed on the book's cover. Four of these copies, which will bear Roman numerals, are already intended for private collections. The plan is to auction the remaining copies, one per year, with all the proceeds -- we're eating the production costs, etc. -- going to The Haven Foundation.

So none of the ten has been put up for auction before, just four distributed for "private collections".

Kim says in the Camelot newsletter:

These have never been offered for sale. With a little deduction you should be able to figure out where the first four went and realize someone is probably going to have to die for those to make it to the secondary market.

So I don't think it was lifetime subscribers, as we wouldn't necessarily be able to guess who got them. I suspect they went to four people closely associated with the project.

HBJ

The first four copies would have certainly gone to the following:

I. Stephen King
II. Chuck Verrill (King's agent)
III. Vincent Chong (Artist)
IV. Bill Schafer

I never fail to be amazed by your IQ. I would never have guessed that... but your totally right


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Be careful, my man!!!! Tim, gets a swelled head very easily!!! The bloke is liable to float away if you serve him any more platitudes!!! lol lol

Spoiler:

Fooking, Brit's!!! Am I right? lol lol

[Alec]

Bill posted this over on the Subterranean Press Face Book page and he said it could be posted on The Dark Tower.org.

Subterranean Press:
35 mins.
Hey all. A number of questions and accusations have cropped up regarding our signed Limited edition of Stephen King’s
The Shining, specifically the ten copies specially bound, traycased, and limited to ten Roman Numeral copies.

The “Room 217” edition was produced years ago, when we published the signed Limited edition of The Shining. (I’ve seen conjecture that the edition was created more recently.)
The edition, and our intention to donate the proceeds to The Haven Foundation, was approved by Steve’s agent. I made the decision to sell the books recently because I felt I’d been offered a fair amount for them, more than I would have thought to ask for them myself. Earlier today, I received an email acknowledgment of the donation from The Haven Foundation, with the promise that a hardcopy would be posted.

I hope that clears up various questions.

[Kingfan24]

My question is why was the customer base not notified at the time of publication that these rogue copies were going to be produced then? Sub press sold the limited edition under the pretense of 52 lettered copies, and 750 limiteds. That's it. No more, no less. The fact that these books even exist is complete shit, and just shows what can be done to artificially create a "new edition".

[Alec]

Centipede Press very often produce more copies than the limitation page shows, see ym2000 copy of Elric of Melnibone.
PS Publishing ran a signed numbered deluxe edition with the 26 lettered deluxe edition, identical books.
It appears a common occurrence, however in this case perhaps some latitude is in order as the monies raised were always destined for the Haven Foundation.

[Kingfan24]

Centipede Press very often produce more copies than the limitation page shows, see ym2000 copy of Elric of Melnibone.
PS Publishing ran a signed numbered deluxe edition with the 26 lettered deluxe edition, identical books.
It appears a common occurrence, however in this case perhaps some latitude is in order as the monies raised were always destined for the Haven Foundation.

I understand overruns, I do. it protects the publisher and the consumer in case of damaged books. Also I understand unnumbered copies get out. But usually they are the same book. My issue is with all the crud surrounding this book on release, all the board damage and traycase issues it seems a little inconsiderate to bind a “new” edition in secret with sig sheets, not tell the public, then sell them at what I imagine was a very low cost compared to what Camelot just sold them for. Not only that but Camelot has the gall to hold two back for a “retirement fund”. Call me what you want but I think this whole situation stinks and I don’t care where the money went.

[Hunchback Jack]

I honestly don't know what you're complaining about.

SubPress had a handful of extra sheets and page blocks, so decided to do something interesting and cool with them, creating a new state of the edition to benefit a select few collectors and charity.

Unfortunately, the public auctions never happened, so six years later, SubPress decided to sell them to Camelot, the proceeds still going to charity. Camelot then offered them to the public at a fixed price, rather than auction them off. I've no idea how much Camelot will make from the sale, but given they sold out in less than two hours, I doubt you could have got a copy for less had they been auctioned off directly by SubPress.

So what exactly is the problem? That not all the money paid by public collectors went to charity? That the edition, created to benefit charity, exists at all? That it was always going to be too rare and pricey for the average collector?

What would you have preferred to happen?

I'm not asking rhetorically. I really would like to know.

[Merlin1958]

Bill posted this over on the Subterranean Press Face Book page and he said it could be posted on The Dark Tower.org.

Subterranean Press:
35 mins.
Hey all. A number of questions and accusations have cropped up regarding our signed Limited edition of Stephen King’s
The Shining, specifically the ten copies specially bound, traycased, and limited to ten Roman Numeral copies.

The “Room 217” edition was produced years ago, when we published the signed Limited edition of The Shining. (I’ve seen conjecture that the edition was created more recently.)
The edition, and our intention to donate the proceeds to The Haven Foundation, was approved by Steve’s agent. I made the decision to sell the books recently because I felt I’d been offered a fair amount for them, more than I would have thought to ask for them myself. Earlier today, I received an email acknowledgment of the donation from The Haven Foundation, with the promise that a hardcopy would be posted.

I hope that clears up various questions.

My question is why was the customer base not notified at the time of publication that these rogue copies were going to be produced then? Sub press sold the limited edition under the pretense of 52 lettered copies, and 750 limiteds. That's it. No more, no less. The fact that these books even exist is complete shit, and just shows what can be done to artificially create a "new edition".

Centipede Press very often produce more copies than the limitation page shows, see ym2000 copy of Elric of Melnibone.
PS Publishing ran a signed numbered deluxe edition with the 26 lettered deluxe edition, identical books.
It appears a common occurrence, however in this case perhaps some latitude is in order as the monies raised were always destined for the Haven Foundation.

Centipede Press very often produce more copies than the limitation page shows, see ym2000 copy of Elric of Melnibone.
PS Publishing ran a signed numbered deluxe edition with the 26 lettered deluxe edition, identical books.
It appears a common occurrence, however in this case perhaps some latitude is in order as the monies raised were always destined for the Haven Foundation.

I understand overruns, I do. it protects the publisher and the consumer in case of damaged books. Also I understand unnumbered copies get out. But usually they are the same book. My issue is with all the crud surrounding this book on release, all the board damage and traycase issues it seems a little inconsiderate to bind a “new” edition in secret with sig sheets, not tell the public, then sell them at what I imagine was a very low cost compared to what Camelot just sold them for. Not only that but Camelot has the gall to hold two back for a “retirement fund”. Call me what you want but I think this whole situation stinks and I don’t care where the money went.

I honestly don't know what you're complaining about.

SubPress had a handful of extra sheets and page blocks, so decided to do something interesting and cool with them, creating a new state of the edition to benefit a select few collectors and charity.

Unfortunately, the public auctions never happened, so six years later, SubPress decided to sell them to Camelot, the proceeds still going to charity. Camelot then offered them to the public at a fixed price, rather than auction them off. I've no idea how much Camelot will make from the sale, but given they sold out in less than two hours, I doubt you could have got a copy for less had they been auctioned off directly by SubPress.

So what exactly is the problem? That not all the money paid by public collectors went to charity? That the edition, created to benefit charity, exists at all? That it was always going to be too rare and pricey for the average collector?

What would you have preferred to happen?

I'm not asking rhetorically. I really would like to know.

First, to "Kingfan's" point, yes extra copies and sheets are held aside to cover possible breakage during delivery, etc. When they are not needed they traditionally become "PC" copies and are assigned a commenserate value. Not as he pointed out, turned into some "special edition" purportedly lingering above the Lettered edition. I agree with, Kingfan and his outrage. Something smells.

Second, "IF" the money was indeed actually donated and accepted by the HF after their 2017 letter sent to TDT.Org HF committee then something is wrong with, King, his agent and the HF staff and organization. I mean "WTF"? We as a forum donated close to $100K to the charity over the years. What kind of "character" does that tell you about the HF and, King to send us that letter and then continue to accept donations? If what, Bill at Sub Press posted is in fact true and supported by the HF, then I believe that, King and the HF owe an apology not only to everyone who donated over the years, but to the artists and professionals that also contributed their time and talents to raising those funds only to be told to "Fuck off" in the end.

Thirdly, I believe this speaks for itself. If Sub Press is somehow fabricating their response and provenance then I believe they owe their customers an apology and some form of contrition.

Regardless, I believe we are entitled to the true and whole story from all involved parties. Otherwise, I would be loathe to spend a dime on anything, King, Sub Press or Camelot produces now and in the future. Speaking for myself, I am extremely baffled and dubious to believe either scenario. At the same time I am also personally hurt at the prospect that my fund raising efforts and those that I solicited were regarded in such a fashion. I don't know what else to say on the matter. This is BS any way you slice it IMHO

[Munnecom]

Could someone explain why the Haven Foundation even stopped accepting donations in the first place? If people (like you lot here) want to throw money at them, why deny them the chance to do that?

[herbertwest]

Given that the books were supposed to be auction off years ago, with i am guessing, proceeds going to the HAVEN Foundation, maybe the Camelot Books donation was in line with the agreement that was set years ago but couldnt get fullfilled?

[Alec]

From the outset I had the utmost faith in the honesty and integrity of Bill at Subterranean Press and Kim and Tony at Camelot. Their ethics and morals were never in question as far as I was concerned.
However it leaves us with one question unanswered and nobody stepping up to the plate to answer it. Why can Subterranean donate and The Dark Tower cannot?
It makes no sense whatsoever that The Haven Foundation would pick and choose who it decided to accept as sponsors. I have no doubt that many of the administrators of this site are either enraged or bemused by the cycle of events that this new book has thrown up.
Until we hear some facts that make sense I fear we shall all remain confounded. One thing is for certain, I doubt anyone in charge of The Dark Tower will be rushing to purchase a copy, if they could even obtain one.

[Randall Flagg]

I don't know for sure, but one possibility that has been mentioned is that the donation from Sub Press was agreed to several years ago, and that The Haven Foundation is accepting the donation as it was previously agreed to. I certainly hope that that or some similar reason is why THF is accepting the donation as I was informed in a letter from THF dated June 16, 2017 that they were no longer accepting public donations.



I don't understand the rules and regulations dealing with 501(c)3 charities, and the differences between public and private foundations, so it's best if I don't look foolish by claiming to understand these particular circumstances. I certainly have no reason to suspect that Sub Press did not follow through on their commitment to donate to The Haven Foundation, so speculation about that is unfair to Bill at Sub Press as well as to all those from Camelot Books.


Here is the letter I received from The Haven Foundation:

[Randall Flagg]

One thing is for certain, I doubt anyone in charge of The Dark Tower will be rushing to purchase a copy, if they could even obtain one.

I had a copy reserved, but just cancelled my order. The optics of me buying a copy could reflect poorly on me and our site, and I can't allow that possibility to happen.

[Merlin1958]

After further consideration it seems to me that the likely explanation for this "kerfluffle" is that some form of a "Grandfathered" situation will apply. It still shows a lack of courtesy and/or respect to this forum on behalf of the HF at the least. It seems our efforts to contribute to the HF cause were never as appreciated as we all thought. That's a real shame because I for one am well aware of the considerable efforts of members here and the level of sacrifice they exhibited. FWIW, those contributing members will forever have my thanks and appreciation.

As for Sub Press, while they may have honored their HF commitment to some extent (Their still remains some questions with regard to the logistics and timing of the sales), I personally do not agree with how they chose to handle what amounts to "PC" signature sheets that survived only in thanks to little breakage during the delivery of the numbered/lettered editions. However, that is just my opinion which is generally not very popular on this forum. Suffice to say that I will not be a customer of theirs now and in the future.



P.S. Jerome, I applaud your restraint in not purchasing a copy. It's a sign of solidarity to me and should be to all those who worked to donate each year to the HF!!!

[shaq]

RF, it is my opinion that you should buy whatever the hell you like.

No implications in my eyes.

It is a beautiful book.

Also, i believe i read about them existing years ago, i recognised the cover as soon as i saw it.

[shaq]

For clarity, if hf accepted donations from other donators, it doesnt make it their (sp/camelot) fault that tdt.org cannot.

Silly to deny oneself.

[webstar1000]

RF and team... where this is a rebound from left over sheets from a book never Intended to be released as a Roman Numeral Version... will you add it to the catalog as a S/L?


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[Randall Flagg]

RF and team... where this is a rebound from left over sheets from a book never Intended to be released as a Roman Numeral Version... will you add it to the catalog as a S/L?


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For clarity and thoroughness, I believe it should be included in the Catalog. Not sure if it needs its own entry. It actually is mentioned and pictured in the entry for the lettered edition of The Shining by Sub Press.

[tippy4]

I think it should be.....these ten books were made by the publisher......not by some 3rd party (like the Tim Miller Best American Short Stories 2007 or the Centipede Press 'salem's Lot page blocks).

[webstar1000]

RF and team... where this is a rebound from left over sheets from a book never Intended to be released as a Roman Numeral Version... will you add it to the catalog as a S/L?


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For clarity and thoroughness, I believe it should be included in the Catalog. Not sure if it needs its own entry. It actually is mentioned and pictured in the entry for the lettered edition of The Shining by Sub Press.

Noticed that! Thanks RF for the reply


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[herbertwest]

After further consideration it seems to me that the likely explanation for this "kerfluffle" is that some form of a "Grandfathered" situation will apply. It still shows a lack of courtesy and/or respect to this forum on behalf of the HF at the least. It seems our efforts to contribute to the HF cause were never as appreciated as we all thought. That's a real shame because I for one am well aware of the considerable efforts of members here and the level of sacrifice they exhibited. FWIW, those contributing members will forever have my thanks and appreciation.

As for Sub Press, while they may have honored their HF commitment to some extent (Their still remains some questions with regard to the logistics and timing of the sales), I personally do not agree with how they chose to handle what amounts to "PC" signature sheets that survived only in thanks to little breakage during the delivery of the numbered/lettered editions. However, that is just my opinion which is generally not very popular on this forum. Suffice to say that I will not be a customer of theirs now and in the future.

I disagree. We do not know the entire story.
Maybe it was planned by the Shining Subterranean Press contract/release?

RF and team... where this is a rebound from left over sheets from a book never Intended to be released as a Roman Numeral Version... will you add it to the catalog as a S/L?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For clarity and thoroughness, I believe it should be included in the Catalog. Not sure if it needs its own entry. It actually is mentioned and pictured in the entry for the lettered edition of The Shining by Sub Press.

I believe that it would deserve its own thread

[Kingfan24]

After further consideration it seems to me that the likely explanation for this "kerfluffle" is that some form of a "Grandfathered" situation will apply. It still shows a lack of courtesy and/or respect to this forum on behalf of the HF at the least. It seems our efforts to contribute to the HF cause were never as appreciated as we all thought. That's a real shame because I for one am well aware of the considerable efforts of members here and the level of sacrifice they exhibited. FWIW, those contributing members will forever have my thanks and appreciation.

As for Sub Press, while they may have honored their HF commitment to some extent (Their still remains some questions with regard to the logistics and timing of the sales), I personally do not agree with how they chose to handle what amounts to "PC" signature sheets that survived only in thanks to little breakage during the delivery of the numbered/lettered editions. However, that is just my opinion which is generally not very popular on this forum. Suffice to say that I will not be a customer of theirs now and in the future.

I disagree. We do not know the entire story.
Maybe it was planned by the Shining Subterranean Press contract/release?

RF and team... where this is a rebound from left over sheets from a book never Intended to be released as a Roman Numeral Version... will you add it to the catalog as a S/L?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For clarity and thoroughness, I believe it should be included in the Catalog. Not sure if it needs its own entry. It actually is mentioned and pictured in the entry for the lettered edition of The Shining by Sub Press.

I believe that it would deserve its own thread

I don't think this edition was planned at all. I think someone got the bright idea to use unused sig sheets to make a new edition. Like I said before - I GET having extra sig sheets, what I don't appreciate is making these seem like official published editions when they clearly are not. I am not going to make any assumptions about the original intended purpose was of these books but in my opinion I don't think they were intended for fundraising. It's shady stuff like this that gives publishing a bad name I think. You don't see suntup doing this kind of stuff, nor do you see CD doing it. Dragon rebound does this the right way, saying these are rebound books, specifically meant for that purpose.

Also, if your hearts are really bleeding for this "but they were for CHARITY!!!" consider that sub press could have thrown these up on eBay (all SIX not just four) or private auction and raised well over the amount that Camelot sold them for. Instead Camelot will keep 2 for a retirement fund, and take what I assume to be a hefty profit on these books.

[shaq]

Kingfan24.

I love opinions. Even when they differ so much. You keep calling it rebound. I don’t think they are. I believe that phrase didn’t even exist when these were made.

Only people that can prove that are Sub Press. But come on, they don’t need to do that do they? Buy it don’t buy it.

I’m in their corner by the way, I love my numbered version even with its scuffs. I think it’s the one I go back to most in my collection (long walk a close 2nd)

[The Library Policeman]

Is it wrong that I couldn’t give a flying fuck either way?