The gang bang scene and the huge spider as "It" mar an otherwise good novel.
The gang bang scene and the huge spider as "It" mar an otherwise good novel.
this, yesOriginally Posted by Ben Mears
O.: I agree that the end is anticlimactic, but I thought that was the most precious thing about it. Fadeout. "... he begins to whistle". Sweet, sad, nostalgic can never end in an apotheosis; it echoes and dissolves.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look for the earlier scene where Bill tells the Losers about his research into folklore. That foreshadows the final confrontation and establishes the Ritual's meaning.... On another note, perhaps it was because I was listening to the story this time, and unable to really slow down and concentrate at my pace, but the whole mind-meld with IT seemed incredibly confusing. I wasn't sure what the hell was going on, "biting IT's tongue in his mind", etc. I am sure that I will go back to this book again, and I will be sure to reread that part more carefully. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Wow, surprised; I just disagree. Loved the dénouement. Don't know what else to say.In the TV adaptation, yes, that comes off as anticlimactic, but I felt like the surrounding concepts in the novel, the kind of subtext that's so hard to translate to film, really carried it off a lot better. Just wish that King didn't so many times reuse this pregnant-creature motif in other books.
Well, I am that way with all endings... I want a surprise. I want something unexpected. I want to wonder about what happens to the characters. It makes me CRAZY not to know what happens next... and I want that craziness because then I know I was truly invested in the whole story.
Buddy, you think you look strong? You’re wearing a cape.
I just finished re-reading IT for the first time in 20+ years on the heels of reading Summer Of Night by Dan Simmons; two epic novels with similar themes. Although SON was clearly influenced by IT I actually found it to be a more interesting and better written. SK certainly excels at stories involving kids, none better than The Body, but in this instance I think he is eclipsed by Mr. Simmons, who is no slouch with the written word. Horror elements aside I felt that Simmons ceated more believable, relatable characters and circumstances. This isn't meant to denegrate IT but, rather, to acknowledge the strengths of SON.
I love Summer of Night. There are definitely parallels between the two. And it's the book that turned me on to Dan Simmons. It's actually probably one of my favorite books, however I don't think anything could ever replace It for me as number one. Have you by chance read the sequel?
Only the gentle are ever really strong.
Yes. A Winter Haunting was an interesting and entertaining follow up. I think Dan Simmons is an incredibly versatile writer. If you haven't visited his website it's worth the time and effort. He writes a fairly regular "message of the month" and if you check the archives for October and November of 2008 you'll find a two part coda to Summer Of Night titled Watching The Presidential Debates In Elm Haven. Also, try to find a copy of Banished Dreams; it is a 25-30 page booklet of deleted scenes from SON. I have sent several emails to Subterranean Press (they are Dan's limited edition publisher) encouraging them to publish a SON limited that would include the delted scenes and the coda as an appendix. IMO that would be the definitive version of the novel.
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I didn't even know those existed! Will do
Only the gentle are ever really strong.
Finished this last night. The book was amazing. I haven't read this entire post yet, but was overall pleased with the ending. If anything I would have like to see what took place after the summer of 58. Also, the forgetting kind of got to me. Since I'm relatively new to the King books, does this tie in to any other books (besides the DTD VII breakers connection)?
No, not really. There are some superficial connections, but essentially it stands aloneI haven't read this entire post yet, but was overall pleased with the ending. If anything I would have like to see what took place after the summer of 58. Also, the forgetting kind of got to me. Since I'm relatively new to the King books, does this tie in to any other books (besides the DTD VII breakers connection)?
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sai King has one ginormous spider fixatation. Anyone else besides me wonder if it isn't an unconscious association with Shelob? There were quite a few parallels with LOTR I thought. (But maybe I see parallels with LOTR like high school professors spot out Christ analogies)
People are always talking about truth.Everybody knows what the truth is,like it was toilet paper or somethin...All there is is bull*...One layer of bullshit on top of another...what you do in life...pick the layer of bull* that you prefer...
I don't think the spider form was so important, really. But they are kind of creepy when you think about it on an existential level: you know, little predators, dark side of nature, all that.
IT is probably my no. 1 favourite by King, followed closely by Misery, Dolores Claiborne, 11/22/63, and Gerald's Game. Recently re-read IT and am already thinking I might read it again soon if I get a copy of the 25th anniversary edition.
You don't already have a copy? For shame, my friend. For shame!!!
Spoiler:
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
I'll get there eventually ! LOL - I actually turned down a chance to buy it new when it came out as I wasn't collecting at that period. It's on my list but not high up yet - if I see it going cheap, I will snag it, but that's unlikely. I might just hold out and eventually get a signed copy of it!
Actually, 1963 revisits these characters. i enjoyed seeing them again, like revisiting an old friend.
No, not really. There are some superficial connections, but essentially it stands aloneI haven't read this entire post yet, but was overall pleased with the ending. If anything I would have like to see what took place after the summer of 58. Also, the forgetting kind of got to me. Since I'm relatively new to the King books, does this tie in to any other books (besides the DTD VII breakers connection)?
Sloth Love Chunk
Hello, everyone. First post. Thought I would join the party! I really enjoyed the Dark Tower series, but wasn't sure what to expect with "It" (though like most people, I had seen the TV movie). By the end of the book, I must say I was pleasantly surprised, It's a lot more than a horror novel.
The basic premise of "It" kept reminding me of Dean Koontz' Phantoms (especially the futher I progressed), now while I do think the horror in Phantoms was actually scarier and more gruesome than It, "It" had a lot more feeling behind it. A sort of metaphoric theme based on the nature of memory.. how humans tend to revisit troubling scenarios and fears in our mind, thinking about it over and over until it becomes so meaningless we don't really know what we're thinking about anymore.
It's really quite an empowering novel, the way the characters go full-circle back to Derry (i.e. confronting their fears) to overcome their disabilities to ultimately destroy It, which was why I was so impressed with the ending. People have said it's rather average and should of ended with the destruction of "It", but that's sort of missing the point, the damage of "It" (or those ever lasting bad memories) linger on in Bill's wife (a newcomer to It) - so the way they ride out of town together, shredding all the bad things that hold them back, really made me feel good about life and the future.
"It" is the perfect name for this book. A spider, clown, bully, it doesn't really matter. I'm also sure It is still alive, the book even says its immortal (I think referring to the entity that is or lives near the deadlights), the spider is just some mortal form. The "gangbang" near the end, yeah, that's weird but it could also allude to the fact that It's spider form isn't dead yet, perhaps..
Overall, awesome book that is on-par with DT books, at least for me.
great first post, welcome, Roden!
I have just read Phantoms and, although I rather liked it, I am afraid I wasn't really impressed by the "horror part"; it might depend on what ones reads first, of course, but I know that the horrors described by King in It will stay with me forever. Especially the Standpipe - something I don't want to think of when home alone at night. And of course you're right about both It being so much more than a horror novel and the importance of the last chapters. Of everything King has written, this is the novel I take most personally, and the one that impressed me most. For me it's first and foremost a story of vincibility (am not sure if it is a word, but can't think of a better at the moment) of evil, however unthinkable; ultimately, a tale of hope.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks! Yes, I see what you mean. I actually wasn't 100% sure which was scarier, though reading both at night can give one dreams... I liked Phantoms as it inspired a lot of the game "Silent Hill" so can relate quite a bit to it, it also seemed way ahead of its time (can't believe it was written in 1981/2).
It seems unlikely I'll read two better novels from Stephen King than It and the Dark Tower series however, which is sad.. can you recommend the next best one, in your opinion? I was thinking of either the Stand or Pet Semetary.. Not too interested in The Shining.. Perhaps save it for a winter vacation?
you can't go wrong with either The Stand or Pet Sematary. Both brilliant.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think the beginning of Koontz's Phantoms has to be one of the spookiest stories ever. For me, as the novel progressed, it became more mundane, but that beginning...
John
If you loved TDT and It, definitely read The Stand. PS is also great (really, really scary) but different. The monster is comparable, but it's more from a single point of view.Agree!
Agree!
And the word you wanted was probably "vulnerability," perhaps "mortality."
vulnerability, yes, I think I used it in my previous posts years ago - somehow it doesn't really get the whole idea across, meaning that evil can only be hurt/damaged/subtracted from; mortality is also good, but doesn't cover it, either (meaning natural death as well). I could say it in Russian (зло победимо), but I am still looking for an English word.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You've got me there. I've no clue what that means... and actually, I'd be hard-pressed to work out how it's even pronounced. I know some Greek, but there's no question you're beyond me in languages. Whatever the tongue, though, it can be very hard to recollect a perfect expression, and it's always extra tricky to put words to someone else's thought. I think we do get the concept, however. Something about the weakness of the human condition, right? Including frailties of the flesh and fallibility in every merely mortal mind and will. The many afflictions to which we're all continuously subject…
Say, that reminds me -- another book with major (in fact, glaring) parallels to It is Peter Straub's Floating Dragon. The characters aren't really as lifelike as King's, but that's a quite affecing story in its own right.
Welcome RodenThanks! Yes, I see what you mean. I actually wasn't 100% sure which was scarier, though reading both at night can give one dreams... I liked Phantoms as it inspired a lot of the game "Silent Hill" so can relate quite a bit to it, it also seemed way ahead of its time (can't believe it was written in 1981/2).
It seems unlikely I'll read two better novels from Stephen King than It and the Dark Tower series however, which is sad.. can you recommend the next best one, in your opinion? I was thinking of either the Stand or Pet Semetary.. Not too interested in The Shining.. Perhaps save it for a winter vacation?
I agree with both of you. I loved It, and it is definitely a lot more than just a scary story. I'd also recommend you put The Long Walk on your list. It is my all-time favorite story, but that one closely follows right behind. Also I think I might have to check out Phantoms.
Only the gentle are ever really strong.
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