Roland's seed
So... was it absolutely necessary to use Roland's seed as well to create Mordred? A normal son whose dad is only the CK wouldn't have been so dangerous evil or smart?
Of course I see that it's a good mix, Roland's seed and stuff but was it absolutely necessary?
Roland would have understood.
It's a good question. I think the answer is yes because the creation of Mordred was to fulfill a prophecy about ending Roland's life. I believe the prophecy stated that the being who would do that would be fathered by Roland. Obviously Mordred didn't fulfill that prophecy [good boy Oy!!] but it's why he was created.
But if he didn't fulfill the prophecy can we still claim that it was necessary?Originally Posted by R_of_G
Sometimes I feel he could have been more successful without Roland's blood in him. It gave him feelings and doubts he had to fight with and ate his energy.
Roland would have understood.
This is the prophecy: "He who ends the line of Eld shall conceive a child of incest with his sister or his daughter, and the child will be marked, by his red heel shall you know him. It is he who shall stop the breath of the last warrior."
Letti: If Mordred didn't fulfill the prophecy, then he wouldn't have been born. The only way he posed a threat to Roland was if he was born of his blood. If he didn't have Roland's seed in him, then he simply would not have been born to begin with. The fulfilling of the prophecy relies on everything to go the way it was described in the quote I posted above. If anything happened differently, then it simply wouldn't have happen at all.
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The neccesity would be defined by those who created him, primarily Los & Walter. Mordred could have succeeded, very well might have succeeded, were it not for Oy. Ultimately, "Plan Mordred" failed like all the rest of the Los & Walter's plans, but I'm not sure it even stood a chance without Roland's seed.
Not so sure about that. I think Mordred could have been born, certainly the CK had the power to reproduce. Because of the prophecy though I don't think a Mordred not born in part to Roland would not have been able to stop Roland.
Also, if Roland weren't his father and killing Roland weren't his aim, Mordred would be a silly name.
Not so sure about that. I think Mordred could have been born, certainly the CK had the power to reproduce. Because of the prophecy though I don't think a Mordred not born in part to Roland would not have been able to stop Roland.
Also, if Roland weren't his father and killing Roland weren't his aim, Mordred would be a silly name.
I'm just gojng by what the prophecy says, and it states that the one who is Born of Roland will be the one to destroy Roland; this that was Mordred's purpous to begin with, I believe the only way he could have been born was the way that it happened, no other way.
Bt he didn't fulfill it, did he?
Roland would have understood.
The CK's seed alone would be more than enough to father some kind of child. The prophecy only says that Roland will be killed by one of his line, not that the CK can't make children. I agree that the child would be different than Mordred, but I don't see how the prophecy precludes the CK from procreation.
Sorry, if that is what I sounded like I was saying, it was my mistake.
I mean that, due to the prophecy, MORDRED couldn't have been born had Roland's seed bnot been used, I wasn't saying that the CK couldn't produce a child of some sort, just not the one he wanted-- the one who would kill Roland. Mordred.
Then we agree. Only Roland's child could fulfill the prophecy, and fulfilling the prophecy was why Mordred was made, little failure that he was.
Yes, I feel that way about it as well.
But if he didn't fulfill the prophecy was he the child the prophecy talked about?
Sorry, if that is what I sounded like I was saying, it was my mistake.
I mean that, due to the prophecy, MORDRED couldn't have been born had Roland's seed bnot been used, I wasn't saying that the CK couldn't produce a child of some sort, just not the one he wanted-- the one who would kill Roland. Mordred.
I really wouldn't like to argue but it's a paradox to me. Do you see?
They needed Roland's seed to create the monster whose fate was to kill Roland BUT he couldn't. So?
Do you see the paradox in it, too?
Roland would have understood.
It could have been a false prophecy. Also, I wouldn't state it necessarily as Mordred "couldn't" kill Roland, more than he "didn't" kill Roland. He definitely could have, or so we were led to believe. I see where you are on this one Letti, I think so anyway. For that matter, maybe Mordred is not the prophesied child, but the prophesied child comes in some future loop. Another one that can't be said for sure. What I am sure of is that Los & Walter created Mordred to try and fulfill the prophecy. Mordred failed.
1. But if it's a false prophecy the information in it was false as well and Roland's seed wasn't necessary.1. It could have been a false prophecy.
2. Also, I wouldn't state it necessarily as Mordred "couldn't" kill Roland, more than he "didn't" kill Roland. He definitely could have, or so we were led to believe.
I see where you are on this one Letti, I think so anyway. For that matter, maybe Mordred is not the prophesied child, but the prophesied child comes in some future loop. Another one that can't be said for sure.
3. What I am sure of is that Los & Walter created Mordred to try and fulfill the prophecy. Mordred failed.
2. Okay, I can say I could have killed Roland (for example when he left his body on the beach) but I didn't kill him.
Anyway we can't know if Mordred could have killed Roland without Oy's help.. we can say yes there is chance but we can never know.
3. That's absolutely right.
Roland would have understood.
Well, since you and I dissagree on the whole "loop" thing, and I believe the loop is the same every time, I believe that Mordred is the one who is talked about in the prophesy. The phrophecy says that Mordred will be the one to kill Roland, it doesn't mean he would actually succeed in doing so, only that he would be capable of it.It could have been a false prophecy. Also, I wouldn't state it necessarily as Mordred "couldn't" kill Roland, more than he "didn't" kill Roland. He definitely could have, or so we were led to believe. I see where you are on this one Letti, I think so anyway. For that matter, maybe Mordred is not the prophesied child, but the prophesied child comes in some future loop. Another one that can't be said for sure. What I am sure of is that Los & Walter created Mordred to try and fulfill the prophecy. Mordred failed.
1. But if it's a false prophecy the information in it was false as well and Roland's seed wasn't necessary.1. It could have been a false prophecy.
2. Also, I wouldn't state it necessarily as Mordred "couldn't" kill Roland, more than he "didn't" kill Roland. He definitely could have, or so we were led to believe.
I see where you are on this one Letti, I think so anyway. For that matter, maybe Mordred is not the prophesied child, but the prophesied child comes in some future loop. Another one that can't be said for sure.
3. What I am sure of is that Los & Walter created Mordred to try and fulfill the prophecy. Mordred failed.
2. Okay, I can say I could have killed Roland (for example when he left his body on the beach) but I didn't kill him.
Anyway we can't know if Mordred could have killed Roland without Oy's help.. we can say yes there is chance but we can never know.
3. That's absolutely right.
Letti, even if the prophecy was fake (Which I don't think it was), the CK and Flagg didn't know that, therefore they would have still gone throuhg the motions to use Roland's seed to birth Mordred even if Mordred wasn't really meant to do anything.
read my above post for my take on the whole thing.
I see. They used it because they were sure it's unmissable.
Roland would have understood.
More-or-less, yeah. The point is, regardless of whether or not the prophecy is completely true, the baddies here wanted to make sure they did everything right. The problem is, Mordred was never completely garaunteed of succeeding in Roland's demise, but by having Roland's blood in him, it gave him the best shot over anyone else of actually killing him. Obviousely, no one can kill Roland, since Mordred couldn't even do it.
That's pretty much what I was trying to say. To attempt to fulfill the prophecy they made Mordred.
Most prophecies are self fulfilling
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
though clearly not in this case. mordred didn't prophesize himself into existence.
That's not what I mean. I was agreeing with what you were saying.
People hear of a prophecy, then take actions to make it happen when it never would have on its own.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
i know matt, i just like to give you a hard time.
Letti, I'm personally of the opinion that all prophecy and fortunes are subject to change and should be treated as such.
Having your fortune told (which prophecy is a form of) is like being stuck at a crossroads. The fortune teller looks at the road you've already walked and says, "According to the way you've acted so far, you'd be most likely to take this path at the crossroads, and if you do such and such is likely to happen." But you are free to change your path at will, thus changing your fortune.
So in the case of Mordred's prophecy, the fact that he would be the one who could kill Roland was not debatable. The fact of whether he would achieve his goal was. (Imo)
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