The Official End Thread

[LadyHitchhiker]

Was I satisfied? No... but I've been told I'm insatiable

[Childe 007]

and on it we do turn.

Roland is but the vessel for this wisdom as his story reflects it's truth.
It is a theme that is often repeated amongst SK's other stories.

This is the way I have come to see it also. Hampster Wheel, but with a purpose.

The mistake that I think I made right after reading DT VII was to assume that reality "reset" when Roland was sent back to the desert. As time has passed and clues discovered I no longer believe this. Time is soft in Roland's world anyway and I don't think that time has turned back even for Roland. The only thing that has changed is the fact that he doesn't remember reaching the Tower. And this time he has his horn. As far as time and reality go - i think it marches on. Roland's quest keeps the fabric of the multiple realities intact. As long as he quests for the Tower - and keeps the Beams safe - the multiverse rolls along.

[Sai_Rhavan]

I was dissapointed, to say the least. I won't spoil anything, but I felt that so much was sacrificed on this long journey that it would end this way. Then again, the sacrifices were partly responsible though.

I did think it was the only possible way to end it without it being cheesy.

...And now that I've just seen that this website has smiley faces, I shall continue to go Super Saiyajin.

[Rolands_Father]

Only one thing truly bothered me, and that was how they portrayed the Crimson King.

... You mean to tell me that the man so evil, so rotten, that he nearly wiped 3 seperate book characters out of existence (Including my favorite, Jack Sawyer) with his cunning intellect, had no more than one letter for the majority of his conversation in the final battle?
"EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

I think it just showed how weak the crimson king was, and it showed how overrated people( for lack of a better term) can really be! I'll admit, that scene was not As cinimatic as i thaught it would be, but it just felt right. Hard to explain...
Oh and another question...
Can you guys share what you guys expected the crimson king to be or do??????

[Matt]

That last one is a damn good question.

[Matt]

Oh yeah, we have smiley's in spades.

[Rolands_Father]

I felt shock,sorrow, awe, wonder, and then a day later...
SATISFACTION!!!!!

I think people that judge the ending right away loose somthing, you need to accept it and let it sink in!!!!!!!

[LadyHitchhiker]

Actually I thought the Crimson King might be an evil Stephen King and therefore be completely formidable.

[Jean]

Oh and another question...
Can you guys share what you guys expected the crimson king to be or do??????

That last one is a damn good question.

...probably requiring a separate thread. Maybe Rolands_Father could start one?

[jayson]

I was pleased with the overall ending [ie. Roland being a mythic character who will continue questing for the Tower over and over and over].

However, I have to echo the previous post on the ending met by the Crimson King. Here we were presented with this powerful entity, who in the end was destroyed by an eraser?!? It's not that I expected him to fall victim to Roland's guns like anybody else would, but I felt a bit cheated that Roland's part in the CK's demise was limited to skeet shooting for sneetches while Patrick drew and erased him. That was a bit anti-climatic for the final shooting scenes of the quest. Everything else I am fine with, but Roland should have gotten to do more than target practice in his final "battle."

[Jean]

Well, I wouldn't say he was destroyed by an eraser. He was destroyed as a result of a complex event, where working agents included, among others, a rose (not just a flower, either) picked by an hero who had been trying to get to the Tower all his life, etc.

[Wuducynn]

I think if you think that Los' was "destroyed" by an eraser you ought to re-read the battle scene. Like Jean said there was a lot more going on there than just that.
Another thing, some folk who don't like that all the CK could do was scream EEEEEEEE and throw sneetches don't understand that several big events had weakened him drastically at that point...most importantly the re-birth of the Beams.

[jayson]

I think if you think that Los' was "destroyed" by an eraser you ought to re-read the battle scene. Like Jean said there was a lot more going on there than just that.
Another thing, some folk who don't like that all the CK could do was scream EEEEEEEE and throw sneetches don't understand that several big events had weakened him drastically at that point...most importantly the re-birth of the Beams.

For the record, I don't think the CK was literally destroyed by Patrick's eraser alone. I certainly understand the part the rose and Roland played in his ultimate demise, and I defintitely understood that (a) the regeneration of the Beams weakened the CK, and, perhaps more importantly, (b) the CK was perhaps not as powerful as he was believed to be earlier in the series.

All of that said, my point was merely that I wished Roland himself played a greater role in the CK's final scenes than he did. Re-reading it for the umpteenth time won't change that. I have no problem understanding the metaphysics of the CK's demise, I just found it a touch anti-climatic.

[Wuducynn]

the CK was perhaps not as powerful as he was believed to be earlier in the series.

I think he was very powerful but in the end with the Beams and being trapped had weakened him it didn't matter. The re-reading it comment was directed to your eraser comment. How is anyone to know what you literally believe unless you state it in the first place?

[jayson]

How is anyone to know what you literally believe unless you state it in the first place?

How about by continuing to participate in the discussion just like we did this time?

FYI, I wasn't offended or anything by your re-reading comment, just wanted to let you know that I understood your take on the specifics of the CK's demise, which admittedly, was not directly evident from my initial post [it was my first so I didn't want to go too far into it and just start babbling].

[Matt]

Well said.

I agree that it was a combination of CK being a bit overhyped (seriously, he really was as people like that often are) and the recent events in his existence.

Like I said before, it wouldn't have mattered who was there. Roland was approaching the Tower at sundown, no matter what.

My son could have taken him out with a fork at that point. Roland I mean.

[Wuducynn]

FYI, I wasn't offended or anything by your re-reading comment, just wanted to let you know that I understood your take on the specifics of the CK's demise, which admittedly, was not directly evident from my initial post [it was my first so I didn't want to go too far into it and just start babbling].

Good deal because there wasn't any offense meant. Often times some folk (not you obviously) when reading the Dark Tower series will take events at face value instead looking at the bigger picture and thats what I point out to a lot of folk.

[Wuducynn]

I agree that it was a combination of CK being a bit overhyped (seriously, he really was as people like that often are) and the recent events in his existence.

I think the over-hyping really from the reader point of view, but if you gather all the evidence in the series, from the characters point of view he was not over-hyped at all. Here is a were-spider demon god who has the very real potential of bringing down the Dark Tower itself, who has a vast army populating multiple worlds with who knows what kind of spiritual and technological abilities at his command. He blackened a land just because. He rode to the Dark Tower in a portable storm. He forced most of his castle to kill themselves just by wishing them to. When he speaks sometimes a child dies somewhere as a direct result.
And those are just things that we know about.

[Jean]

agreed, AllHail... and the very concept of a dead insane king hanging about the Tower isn't anything to spit on, either...

[jayson]

Good deal because there wasn't any offense meant. Often times some folk (not you obviously) when reading the Dark Tower series will take events at face value instead looking at the bigger picture and thats what I point out to a lot of folk.

One thing I have learned from re-reading and re-reading these books is that very little can be taken at face value at least with regards to the metaphysical aspects of the series. I have yet to re-read it without having at least one "oh, i never really thought of it like that before" moments.

I actually have a mildly developed theory about the demise of Los with respect to Patrick. In short, I feel Patrick had an ability to "undraw" Los from End-World much the way Roland was able to draw his Tet to Mid-World. Of course Patrick did it by literally drawing his subject. Obviously more goes into it than simply Patrick drawing and then "un-drawing" the King, particularly the dye made from part of the crushed rose [as I find the field of roses to be a part of the tower and thus infused with the ka of the tower] and part of Roland's blood [ie. the blood of the Eld, which flows in the CK as well]. Perhaps Roland's own "drawing" ability allowed him to facilitate Patrick's disposal of CK?

[Matt]

Sure, he was a serious bad ass for sure. But I think part of his "hype" was the idea that he wouldn't do things as "human" as he did them. Make the mistakes he made.

The guy was powerful as shit, no question. But he was still kind of an idiot which is what I meant by not living up to the hype. Its very common among supervillians.

[Wuducynn]

But he was still kind of an idiot which is what I meant by not living up to the hype. Its very common among supervillians.

Yeah, and super heroes...like letting kids drop... :whistle:

[Matt]

Exactly--I wouldn't consider Roland as living up to the hype either.

[Jean]

Sure, he was a serious bad ass for sure. But I think part of his "hype" was the idea that he wouldn't do things as "human" as he did them. Make the mistakes he made.

The guy was powerful as shit, no question. But he was still kind of an idiot which is what I meant by not living up to the hype. Its very common among supervillians.

Especially supervillains as described by King, yes. I think it's one of his main themes - the vulnerability and the ultimate vincibility of evil.

[Wuducynn]

"heroes" "villains" such subjective language...one persons hero is anothers villain..etc..