Sorry this is a bit off topic but can someone give me page references in the book that deal with the horn? I want to reread that stuff.
He would continue anyway
He would cry off
Sorry this is a bit off topic but can someone give me page references in the book that deal with the horn? I want to reread that stuff.
I don't think he'd ever cry it off. His stubborn mind would believe that this time was different, regardless of what he had been told or seen about a loop.
he did learn to open up. he did change throughout the series. there's clear evidence of that. Just not enough.
And the horn is symbolic. It wasn't important enough to him to pick it up. but was he obsessed with the Tower at this point? I assume so. Ever since he looked into the pink bend.
How much of a bitch is that. I forget my wallet and phone all the time. Imagine one little mistake that you have no idea is a mistake, and you still have to suffer through a whole shitstorm of adventures, deaths and problems, and once you finally reach the end, you realize you were totally screwed from the beginning.
what a bitch!
Mike, I think you may very well be right. I'm just not totally convinced that he would keep going. Part of the reason is because of how he begged Susannah to stay with him. It seemed like he did it out of an almost desperate need to have someone in his life. This is not the Roland we met in The Gunslinger. That Roland would have been just as likely to be glad for her to go on so he had fewer distractions. And you see moments all along where Roland feels left out, feels that need for companionship. Seems to me that he has started to reroute his thinking about what is important in life. I don't think he got even close to all the way there, but then, what incentive did he have? He didnt' know what was at the top of the tower, and frankly, I'd have been completely pissed off if Roland had forsaken his quest somewhere along the way. *I* wanted to go to the top as well!! But had I known ahead of time what awaited him there, I'd have begged him to go through the door with Susannah!
Agreed. The horn is not his salvation. It is just a symbol of it. He stops, he thinks, he cares, he loves.Originally Posted by Darkthoughts
I don't know... I really think Roland is so obsessed that he would continue to follow the beam.
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Same here, but I think it would change how he handles the quest.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
I think in a lot of ways, that is truly the story of peoples lives right there.Imagine one little mistake that you have no idea is a mistake, and you still have to suffer through a whole shitstorm of adventures, deaths and problems, and once you finally reach the end, you realize you were totally screwed from the beginning.
what a bitch!
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
Weeeeeeelll since he forgets a lot everytime he loops, I think he would keep looping... I think something would happen in the loop that would make it so that he would have to keep going. He is driven by ka .. ka is a wheel - according to the book - and so he will keep following the same path overa nd over and over.
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I thought Roland knew what would happen in the tower.
I think sometime after the drawing of Sussanah he realises this.
There are also other possibilities: after the palaver with Walter or after the dunnie encounter in Wizard and Glass.
Why do I think this?
Roland is very sick when he returns back from our world. Eddie and Susannah take care of him. In this half-comateuse period he has dreams. And when he heals he sounds and acts like a slightly different person.
Now, this is expained with the company he's got, the new ka-tet. Since I'm a believer of the theory about saving his soul and taking care of the ones he loves, in order to succeed I ask myself this question: Does Roland ever let someone down again (purposely) after he drops Jake?
No, he never ever does it again. Why not?
Remember how far he goes to save Jake. This makes me think about his realisation of doing things in a more human way. So many times in the series it was pointed out Roland let down the ones who loved him. This must have a reason, a very important one. Maybe he doesn't realise it right away. But I'm pretty sure he realises it somewhere before book 5. The answers about the tower questions are very suspicious if I think back.
Hence, Sussanah asks what is so important about the tower and what will happen when he gets there. Rolands answer is: I can't say.
Sussanah thoughts: I can't say was not the same as I don't know.
This always bugged me and I admit you can interpret it also in a different way.
But it makes too much sense for me.
doghouse is always empty
Maybe the tower won't let Roland cry off, once he walks through the door the tower makes him obsessed about it been save but for the tower to be truly saved Roland must do things the right way or he continues the loop until he does.
Weather or not Roland knew, I don't think he should cry off. with all the previous people that have died on his quest for the Tower, most a part of his tet at one point or another, the only way he could do them justice and honor his dead was to reach the Tower and call there name. Otherwise their death's were in vain.
a very good point
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nothing new:
In my opinion he would never believe it. There are things... that we are not able to see because they are too close to us. It happens to all of us. I hope it makes some sense.
And even if he did he would go anyway.
Roland would have understood.
Like misspellings and family problems. You know what it should be, so you can't see what it is?
Right?
Yes. Somthing like that. *nods*
Roland would have understood.
O.K.
Yep, I can see that part of it.
My thoughts exactly. Roland would not have belived walters words. And if he did, he would have carried on anyway, deterand to break the loop i think.
If you love me, then love me-Susan of mejis
See the turtle, aint he keen? All things serve the fucking beam-Eddie of NewYork
You burn prettily-Corwin of Amber
I think he would continue even if the memories of all the previous trips through the loops came flooding back. If for no other reason he'd say 'Ka wills it'. Honestly I believe if the memories from all the previous trips came back he'd work all the harder to reach the top, hes a Gunslinger, the heir of Arthur Eld, brother and Twin but not twin with The Crimson King and Agent of the White. It his nature and no matter how many times through his destiny lies in the Dark Tower.
This part of your post particularly interests me, could you explain?
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
Roland and the Crimson King, although related though Arthur Eld is in a way brothers even if separated by a thousand years or so. More importantly there are 'twins' through the series and Roland and the Crimson King are just that. Roland is an Agent of the White and the King and Agent of the Red. Both seek the same thing, the top room of the Tower. The King to bring darkness and chaos to the multi-verse, basically destroy it. Roland desires to save the Tower and the multi-verse.
The King is totally mad and insane, zero control of self, indulgence, no care for others, no compassion. Roland is the dipolar opposite. Its this opposite nature of Rolands that makes me think he would always seek the Tower regardless of what he knew.
very well said aurora. i agree with a lot of that.
That is a very interesting perspective, Aurora. Thanks. I agree with most of it, except for saying that the CK has zero control of self, but he did go over the deep end when he "commited suicide".
I have to say the Twins thing is especially interesting when we reach the Tower with Roland and he notices that the Crimson King's eyes and the Roses are the same shade of red...just something to chew on.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
They do come back. He thinks and feels quite often in WoC that things had happened to him already..
Roland would have understood.
Good point Letti. Same thing happens at the very beginning of the Gunslinger Revised too.
Really? I don't remember it. In fact I am quite surprised to see such lines in the Wolves. I didn't remember them at all..
Roland would have understood.
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