I voted saved: the next loop is the last before final salvation.
Saved: the next loop is the last before final salvation
Saved: after a number of loops
Saved (neither of the above: give your own version)
Damned: the next loop is the last before final damnation
Damned: stuck in the eternal loop forever
Damned (neither of the above: give your own version)
I voted saved: the next loop is the last before final salvation.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He is damned to be stuck in a continual loop until he gives up his quest for the Tower... which, by doing that, is his form of salvation.
Buddy, you think you look strong? You’re wearing a cape.
I voted the same as Odetta for the exact same reason. I think he has to cry off to end it which represents a very common paradox in all of our lives
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
I voted saved, the next loop being the last - as explained in the other thread I think it all rests on the fact he now has the horn.
I'm with Darkthoughs on this one. I think now that he has the horn this will be his last time.
"People, especially children, aren't measured by their IQ. What's important about them is whether they're good or bad, and these children are bad." ~ Alan Bernard
"You needn't die happy when your day comes, but you must die satisfied, for you have lived your life from beginning to end and ka is always served." ~ Roland Deschain
which makes three of us...
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Four
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
Not me
**stirs the pot**
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
*pushes Matt into the pot*
But seriously, I do not believe the horn to represent anything except the idea that this loop will be "different".
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
Just a sort of starting point of his redemption?
I could be the point that marks where his obsession actually began. Perhaps having it with him will be another way try and remember his humanity through the next loop.
but I am not sure it will do the trick and the vast majority of us seem to think that even if he knew, he would still do it.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
Yes, I agree with the fact that Roland will always give the tower precedence. I sort of consider that to be an occupational hazard of any hero though - y'know compulsive/obsessive behaviour
I think he would still go through with it even if he knew but I think that "difference" will be that he could make it to the top of the Tower and into the room instead of just being pushed back. Also, and here is an option folk haven't even thought of...maybe he gets killed in the next loop and his ka-tet fails.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
I thought about Roland getting killed - before he even draws a ka-tet, though. I argued elsewhere that if he refused to kill everyone at Tull but died there instead, it might be just what is expected from him - and he would be saved, and the Beam heal itself, and Blaine rots and falls apart before releasing that gas, and the wolves stop forever, etc. It would be ok as a speculation if wasn't so thin. Your reasoning opens other horizons, however.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i think the horn is irrelevant.
you know those video games where you finish the game and then you get some stupid cheat code that is really irrelevant since you've finished the game anyhow?
that is the horn.
Last edited by sarajean; 07-30-2007 at 03:35 PM. Reason: spelling was correct. no need for (sp?)s :D
Buddy, you think you look strong? You’re wearing a cape.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
Buddy, you think you look strong? You’re wearing a cape.
I voted with Matt and Odetta...but then again, I think the 3 of us were chatting about this very thing the other day and we all agreed then too.
It's peanut butter jelly time!
I think that is the message King wanted to get out there. If you want salvation, cry off your obsessions that tend to ruin your life.
Its not like the man never had any
Obsessions I mean
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
True.
Funny thought...maybe if Roland would have just hooked up with a well hung black man, it would have quenched the thirst.
It's peanut butter jelly time!
excuse me, isn't the story a little more complicated than that? On the one hand, it is obsession. On the other, it is saving the universe - nothing, I believe, to spit on. With saving lots of individual people (their very souls, not only their lives) into the bargain. And, true - the other side again - killing lots of individual people. All in all, the dialectic of the Dark Tower doesn't seem reducible to one single line.Originally Posted by Matt
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sure, but the tower was saved many moons before he actually got there.
He could have cried off after Blue Heaven. The Tower was speaking through Sheemie--"all is well"
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
1. yes... and once a certain pink crystal showed him that everything was well with a certain girl...
2. Making him cry off after he actually saved the universe would seem gratuitously cruel, wouldn't it? Like saying to a child: you can have that candy after you clean your room, and after he actually does it, refuse him that candy on the pretext that it is bad for teeth and generally kids shouldn't be indulged.
3. Finally, I thought that everything we could consider bad was done by him before Blue Heaven, not after? Is there something so very wrong about saving Sai King or Patrick? About erasing Crimson King from existence? Or would you feel comfortable with a dead insane wizard hanging about the Tower?
In a word, we shouldn't forget that The DT isn't a moral pamphlet. It's awfully complicated stuff concerning all possible aspects of existence, and none of them should be disregarded when we discuss it.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you feel that way, its cool with me. I believe the story has all kinds of different aspects but the moral is the same.
Roland is doomed to repeat the loop because he cannot find it in himself to cry off. We can't re write history here, nothing mattered to him other than the tower. Right up to the last minute he wanted that tower like crack.
As far as number two. Hell yeah I would deny the candy to the child if it was an obsession and had proven to be a bad road to take. But it doesn't really apply because no one promised Roland the tower
I am not trying to over simplify the story but I do believe it holds a message about redemption and how people tend to self destruct themselves
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket