"The Constitution shall never be construed....to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms" (Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87)
Well, we certainly agree on that note.
AllHail: I am sorry I can't word it quite clearly; I'll try again. Trying to cram a great piece of fiction under a category is meaningless unless you intend further to judge it by the pre-existing laws of this category, foreign and external to the book in question. You inobtrusively acquire the right to say King "shouldn't have" written himself into it, or that he "should have" staged that epic battle between Roland and Flagg so many people sorely miss; and it has to do only with laws of genres, sanctified by criticists' analysis of someone else's writing. A great novel creates its own laws and should be judged by them only, with the help of the reader's taste, intelligence, and reading experience, not something someone invented for a different case.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Except you're coming from the presumption that there are certain "laws" or "rules" of the fantasy genre. To me there aren't any. Outside of most of whatever story that is being written is a fantasy. I DEFINITELY don't think you unobtrusively acquire any rights by thinking a work is fantasy.
You can think whatever you want of course, but there are no "rights" involved.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
I am only basing on my experience of arguing with other readers, on or off-line. If you look back you will see that I only started this, quite off-topical, sideline of reasoning because of what obscurejude said quoting Tolkien, namely, that "for fantasy to be successful it must remain distinct from the actual world".
::/end off-topicality::
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For my part I think King created something absolutely new with this series. A new type. We can't put it into words or more exactly I can't. Maybe in 100 years when there are other writers who mix so many things (types) in one book or series there will be a new word for it.
Because right now I can't put it into a box.
Roland would have understood.
Anyway, one of my favorite parts of SOS is when Roland mesmerizes King and the indepth information we get from that session. I think his relationship to the whole series as "kas-ka Gan" is fascinating.
Oh and Jean, we've known each other long enough you can call me Matthew.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
(May I call you Matthew, too?)
My favourite parts are when King believes and doesn't believe his own eyes at the same time. The way his sane mind fights with him.
Roland would have understood.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
Am I the only one that cringed with Stephen King wrote himself into the story?
I suspect this, or similar questions, have been asked on this board before (a lot, probably), so apologies in advance.
Really, though, it just seemed so bloody...awful. It really made me cringe. Egotism, no matter how he intended it, was how it came across to me. A cheap, bitter plug at his car accident. I think it was a good concept...I just hated it.
What did you think?
EDIT:
edited title by maerlyn
Last edited by sarah; 04-22-2008 at 08:39 PM. Reason: spoilers in the title
I was a bit nervous about it at first but I ended up being really happy with how it was done.
I know other authors have written themselves in but personally I've never read a book that way. I thought it ended up being pretty cool.
Lalalalaaaa, lalalalaaa
Lalalalaaaa, lalalalaaa
sugarpop <3
I liked how the crash played out, I suppose, but I really could have done without him. He could have had any old character as the writer, really. For me his presence is the only real blotch on the whole series.
Sorry about the title, by the way.
I still don't like his presence in the book for the aforementioned reasons, but now I have a new one: why does Gan need a ves ka gan? CK, Monte, and I are wrestling with this and it seems to me that King's presence is what brings this tension within the text to the surface. Sometimes I can't help but think his role in SOS is self aggrandizing.
I still love Steven King and the Dark Tower series, or I wouldn't be here. Please don't hate me. I feel this way, in part, because I'm just frustrated.
*hugs Jude*
When I heard King would be in the book my first thought was: "Aha, so he wants to meet Roland in person" - but I didn't think it's self aggrandizing. And his character wasn't positive at all moreover..
Roland would have understood.
I had no idea he was writing himself into the novels until I began to read those parts.
Like Letti and Maerlyn, I wasn't sure at first, but I think it really ended up good and even adding to the story.
I liked King as a character, and I think I'd like him as a person, assuming he wrote himself somewhat realistically.
Especially any time he's in a trance - I think he really showed his true colors then.
*edit* Even though his true self isn't so great - like Letti said, I didn't think it was self aggrandizing.
As Marcion did with the Old Testament during the pre-Nicene period, I have opted to take Song of Susannah out of my personal Dark Tower cannon. I will no longer refer to it, because it doesn't exist.
What is this thread about? What does SOS stand for?
Does that mean you won't participate in any more talks about the need (or not) for a Ves'-ka?
I really think we need a thread for that...
Are you serious? *blinks*
Roland would have understood.