The Official End Thread

[LadyHitchhiker]

I think that Roland is part of a universal machine (for lack of a better word) that keeps the beams intact. Without Roland, the beams would decay and all words would crumble. Unless CK were to take over, and then ... well the worlds I do not think would decay but would change for a mad man would be behind the wheel.

[Kyonn]

Just because King shows us Roland in the desert doesn't mean he started back over there. In fact have the Horn implies that he did not.

We first meet Roland in the desert but we know his quest did not began there, that's just where King decides to start the tale and I think this cycle is no different. Personally I believe that Rolands lives his whole life over or at least from the point when he first exited the wizards glass and started his quest for the tower.

Thanks for this post. I never thought of it that way but it makes total sense. Just because King has him in the desert in the loop doesn't mean he started over there. Just because he opened the door to the desert doesn't mean he was really starting there. Interesting theory. I'm in the middle of rereading DT7 (I have the dreaded readers block at the moment) but I will hopefully have fresh insight upon finishing this reread.

Well just before Roland enters his last door, the book states (thru Roland) that he does go into the desert each time and for a specific reason too.

The book also says:

“He shifted his gunna from one shoulder to the other, then touched the horn that rode on his belt behind the gun on his right hip. The ancient brass horn had once been blown by Arthur Eld himself, or so the story did say. Roland had given it to Curthbert Allgood at Jericho Hill, and when Cuthbert fell, Roland had paused just long enough to pick it up again, knocking the deathdust of that place from its throat”

How was he able to pick up the horn if he started back in the desert?

[Wuducynn]

How was he able to pick up the horn if he started back in the desert?

My theory is that each time he goes into the Tower and gets closer to being able to go into the room at the top of the Tower, he is changing his life and his memory of things that happened change, like this instance. Before he didn't have the Horn of Eld, he had left it there, but now as a gift from Gan he actually picked it up.

[Kyonn]

How was he able to pick up the horn if he started back in the desert?

My theory is that each time he goes into the Tower and gets closer to being able to go into the room at the top of the Tower, he is changing his life and his memory of things that happened change, like this instance. Before he didn't have the Horn of Eld, he had left it there, but now as a gift from Gan he actually picked it up.

I still disagree.

I think the whole point is that Roland needs to make the right decision on his own of his own free will. If Gan made the decisions for him (gifted things to him) then Roland could never truly learn thus never have any hope for real salvation.

If Gan were willing to give things to Roland how would he earn them or why would he need to punished in the first place.

[MonteGss]

Just because King shows us Roland in the desert doesn't mean he started back over there. In fact have the Horn implies that he did not.

Thanks for this post. I never thought of it that way but it makes total sense. Just because King has him in the desert in the loop doesn't mean he started over there. Just because he opened the door to the desert doesn't mean he was really starting there. Interesting theory. I'm in the middle of rereading DT7 (I have the dreaded readers block at the moment) but I will hopefully have fresh insight upon finishing this reread.

Well just before Roland enters his last door, the book states (thru Roland) that he does go into the desert each time and for a specific reason too.

The book also says:

“He shifted his gunna from one shoulder to the other, then touched the horn that rode on his belt behind the gun on his right hip. The ancient brass horn had once been blown by Arthur Eld himself, or so the story did say. Roland had given it to Curthbert Allgood at Jericho Hill, and when Cuthbert fell, Roland had paused just long enough to pick it up again, knocking the deathdust of that place from its throat”

How was he able to pick up the horn if he started back in the desert?

There is a specific reason he starts at the desert. There is a reason Gan throws him back there.

This passage is from The Dark Tower and I cannot say it better:

"How many times had he climbed these stairs only to find himself peeled back, curved back, turned back? Not to the beginning, but to that moment in the Mohaine Desert when he had finally understood that his thoughtless, questionless quest would ultimately succeed?

As far as how he has the horn, I agree with CK on his interpretation. It is a gift from Gan basically.

[obscurejude]

Good point Monte. We've always got to address the cycle question with why the desert specifically?

[Wuducynn]

I still disagree.

I think the whole point is that Roland needs to make the right decision on his own of his own free will. If Gan made the decisions for him (gifted things to him) then Roland could never truly learn thus never have any hope for real salvation.

If Gan were willing to give things to Roland how would he earn them or why would he need to punished in the first place.

Who said anything about Gan making his decisions for him? Not me. He has to make his own decisions to sucessfully make it to the Tower.

[Kyonn]

I still disagree.

I think the whole point is that Roland needs to make the right decision on his own of his own free will. If Gan made the decisions for him (gifted things to him) then Roland could never truly learn thus never have any hope for real salvation.

If Gan were willing to give things to Roland how would he earn them or why would he need to punished in the first place.

Who said anything about Gan making his decisions for him? Not me. He has to make his own decisions to sucessfully make it to the Tower.

What I meant was that if the horn, as well as the memory of picking it up, was a gift from Gan then someone else (Gan) made the decision to pause and pick up the horn not Roland, thus Roland didn't really learn anything himself.

I guess I just need to read book 7 over again.

[obscurejude]

Kyonn, those are legitimate points and we always end up talking about them around here. Divine and human agency are certainly in the series, and neither are very definitive at points. You are certainly justified in trying to bring them out.

[MonteGss]

But I see it as a gift from Gan because of what he learned before he entered the Tower. All that he learned about love before the last door was the reason for the gift.

[obscurejude]

Monte, case in point.

[Kyonn]

I guess we could have a whole debate about freewill and determinism but I rather not.

One thing that does interest me in the time nature of the cycle. When Roland is transported back to the desert is he just physically transported and had his memory wiped, thus each journey to the Tower would have a different set of circumstances and a new cast character (no Jake, Eddie and Susannah). Or does he get transported back in time a relive the whole thing over again

We know the cycle we read was not Roland’s first time through, but only the cycle that was channeled though the writer Stephen King. Maybe each cycle is different with a new set of circumstances and since it takes place in a different time period relative to true earth were time onlu moves one way, thus a new writer would channel the story in a different time period.

[MonteGss]

I guess we could have a whole debate about freewill and determinism but I rather not.

One thing that does interest me in the time nature of the cycle. When Roland is transported back to the desert is he just physically transported and had his memory wiped, thus each journey to the Tower would have a different set of circumstances and a new cast character (no Jake, Eddie and Susannah). Or does he get transported back in time a relive the whole thing over again

We know the cycle we read was not Roland’s first time through, but only the cycle that was channeled though the writer Stephen King. Maybe each cycle is different with a new set of circumstances and since it takes place in a different time period relative to true earth were time onlu moves one way, thus a new writer would channel the story in a different time period.

Wow Kyonn, that is a good theory! I like it!
I'm glad there are some cool Tower Junkies around here.

[obscurejude]

I guess we could have a whole debate about freewill and determinism but I rather not.

One thing that does interest me in the time nature of the cycle. When Roland is transported back to the desert is he just physically transported and had his memory wiped, thus each journey to the Tower would have a different set of circumstances and a new cast character (no Jake, Eddie and Susannah). Or does he get transported back in time a relive the whole thing over again

We know the cycle we read was not Roland’s first time through, but only the cycle that was channeled though the writer Stephen King. Maybe each cycle is different with a new set of circumstances and since it takes place in a different time period relative to true earth were time onlu moves one way, thus a new writer would channel the story in a different time period.

I'd like to respond, but I'm really not following you. Does your second paragraph follow the argument of your latter point in paragraph 1 or the former?

[Kyonn]

I guess we could have a whole debate about freewill and determinism but I rather not.

One thing that does interest me in the time nature of the cycle. When Roland is transported back to the desert is he just physically transported and had his memory wiped, thus each journey to the Tower would have a different set of circumstances and a new cast character (no Jake, Eddie and Susannah). Or does he get transported back in time a relive the whole thing over again

We know the cycle we read was not Roland’s first time through, but only the cycle that was channeled though the writer Stephen King. Maybe each cycle is different with a new set of circumstances and since it takes place in a different time period relative to true earth were time onlu moves one way, thus a new writer would channel the story in a different time period.

I'd like to respond, but I'm really not following you. Does your second paragraph follow the argument of your latter point in paragraph 1 or the former?

Sorry for it being so poorly worded, but I just hacked it out without editing it for clarity. If by first paragrah you mean the part about freewill then nno, it does not have anything to do with the rest of the post.

[jayson]

One thing that does interest me in the time nature of the cycle. When Roland is transported back to the desert is he just physically transported and had his memory wiped, thus each journey to the Tower would have a different set of circumstances and a new cast character (no Jake, Eddie and Susannah). Or does he get transported back in time a relive the whole thing over again

I think it is closer to the former. I don't like seeing the Tower as a big ashy reset button. Also, this would mean the cycles are not the same, which I also agree with.

We know the cycle we read was not Roland’s first time through, but only the cycle that was channeled though the writer Stephen King. Maybe each cycle is different with a new set of circumstances and since it takes place in a different time period relative to true earth were time onlu moves one way, thus a new writer would channel the story in a different time period.

VERY interesting theory.

[Woofer]

We know the cycle we read was not Roland’s first time through, but only the cycle that was channeled though the writer Stephen King. Maybe each cycle is different with a new set of circumstances and since it takes place in a different time period relative to true earth were time onlu moves one way, thus a new writer would channel the story in a different time period.

VERY interesting theory.

Like Browning's poem?

[MonteGss]

That is an awesome point. Browning was channeled one time (or more, who knows?) and King also. Actually doesn't Book 7 say as much at some point? I seem to remember this.
Great idea though.

[Childe 007]

Yes... King's inclusion at the end of Browning's poem I thought at the time suggested that Browning may have penned "the final cycle."

[sarah]

That's is how I saw it. That this was the second to last time to the top of the Tower and the last time was the poem. At least that is what I hope for our beloved Roland. Let him find peace at the top of the Tower and be done with it.

Letti made a post months ago about Roland having to always go through the loop because he is what helps the Tower stay up. He is part of the Tower. I can't remember her specifics but I thought that was a good point.

[fernandito]

...the last time was the poem. At least that is what I hope for our beloved Roland. Let him find peace...

...he is what helps the Tower stay up. He is part of the Tower...

But if Roland is a part of the Tower in the sense that you're describing, wouldn't that imply that he will never find rest/peace?

[Wuducynn]

But if Roland is a part of the Tower in the sense that you're describing, wouldn't that imply that he will never find rest/peace?

And that is exactly what Sarah's opinion is too.

[fernandito]

Thanks Sarah.

[Wuducynn]

Well shes already said it in other posts, fuck-face.

[fernandito]

I believe you, fuck face.