Desmond is awesome. My wife and I love when he's in an episode... especially those that focus on him.
Desmond is awesome. My wife and I love when he's in an episode... especially those that focus on him.
Easily my favorite episode of the season thus far. Desmond is my favorite character overall, so I love when we get more of him.
In reference to the thing with Aaron, I think we have to look back at what they said about the CS Lewis/Narnia connection. If one remembers, at the end of the first book the children find the portal that takes them back to the wardrobe again and they go back to the "real" world. But when they do they become children again. Physically, they shrink. Well, what if the opposite is happening here. Aaron leaves the island, catching up with time, and grows. It would also explain the "taller Walt" deal. This fact alone, knowing that the "baby" is now a friggin' three-year-old and the island obviously has unexplainable properties, might be enough to make a guy like Jack stay away from him. He wants to reintegrate into his life and facing the fact that there is a magic in the island might make him question his choices.
Heng Dai
Mike B, I think you are spot on with your Desmond timetable.
The Brotha has always been my second favorite character though his episodes are always the best ones, imo. He is quickly becoming my favorite character though....they had BETTER NOT kill him off.
Great, great episode, best of the year so far.
*Edit*
Oh, and I agree with Bev...that phone call was a real tear-jerker. Great stuff.
Going back to last week's eposode.....is Aaron the fifth of the Oceanic 6?
Debatable. He wouldn't have been listed on the manifest. It's possible but not certain.
I would think that manifest technicality would mean that he is not considered one of the six.
And thanks Mike, for that Desmond time line. It really helped out.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
Originally Posted by Bev Vincent
True, his name was not on the manifest, but really, does that matter?
If there had been a stowaway in the cargo hold, wouldn't he still be considered a survivor?
Aaron did survive the crash of 815.
Fuck me, that was good.
The only thing I'm not sure about is the timetable of the episode in relation to Desmond's past events.
I read Mike Beck's theory on the timeline and I'm inclined to concur.
Yeah, I got very confused after last night's episode. I was wondering if Desmond's past with Penny and the boat got erased once he said he wouldn't call her till so many years in the future. But I think Mike might be right with his timeline. It definately makes more sense now.
Only the gentle are ever really strong.
It was that "change the future" question that got me. It seemed significant and the dude seemed a little weird when he answered.
But its not like you can imo. Each "future" is specific to the time line and all traveling into the past would do is create a new one.
Not changed...new (boggles his own mind)
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
Anyone else get a Quantum Leap vibe from last night's episode?
Desmond Hume....leaping from life to Life...striving to put right which once went wrong...and hoping each time that his next leap...will be the leap home.
It was also very reminiscent of the final episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation in which Picard finds his consciousness leaping back and forth between three periods in his life.
What happened, in my opinion, was that Desmond had already done everything in the past already. That was signified when you see him walking away from Penny's flat after everything was fixed. All that happened was Faraday had written in the book on what to tell Desmond and he'd already written 'Desmond Hume will be my constant' because he knows in the future, he will talk to Desmond and will have a connection and thus is why he does whatever he's about to do in this next episode. He knew that he wouldn't by the numbers only so made sure he remember elouise because it happened. But that's just my theory. This would explain his flashes into the future, imo. That is why his flashes were all freighter/charlie centric, to lead to talking to penny.It was that "change the future" question that got me. It seemed significant and the dude seemed a little weird when he answered.
But its not like you can imo. Each "future" is specific to the time line and all traveling into the past would do is create a new one.
Not changed...new (boggles his own mind)
This really sheds a lot of light as to why Faraday is on the island and perhaps why Desmond made it there.
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Watched it again last night.
I am absolutely convinced now that Desmond is "cured" and he remembers everything again. His facial expressions (both in present and past) were what sealed it for me...like everything was clicking back into place.
I watched all the Desmond centric episodes yesterday to see if I saw something I had previously missed but nothing. Mike Beck is absolutely correct with his Desmond timeline though, imo.
I think to really understand the whole "changing the future" aspect you have to look at time subjectively. What Faraday said was correct. He wasn't changing the future, because the events that happened were part of history. In order to look at time in its correct context one must look from outside of time.
In physics there is a theory about hyperbeings. Hyperbeings would theoretically reside in a realm/dimension that moves at exactly the speed of light, and at that speed time ceases to exist. When you move slower than the speed of light you experience time in a forward motion, and when you move faster than the speed of light you experience time in a backward motion. But when at the exact speed of light you step outside of the spectrum of time completely. Therefore, being outside of time, you can then look at all history--past, present, and future--as a whole. Think of it as God reading a book that is comprised of everything that ever has or will happen in the existence of life. Looking at it like this you would see a chapter in 1996 where Desmond's consciousness begins to make jumps to another time, and then later in another chapter we find Desmond's present consciousness absent, being replaced by the intermittent presence of his past consciousness. He didn't change the future; he merely fulfilled it, as was inevitable. That's how it was written in the book. Faraday's entry in his journal about Desmond being his constant didn't just appear there. It was there because those things had already occurred in the past and he wrote it.
There are any number of reasons that Faraday might have forgotten or not recognized him: Desmond was older and his appearance had changed, he only saw Desmond for the period of about an hour and a half eight years previous, he was subjected to radiation and electromagnetism, etc. And if he had remembered that may have altered the course of things, and paradox is not allowed with this theory. So Faraday was fulfilling his future, as well, in not recognizing Desmond or remembering what happened eight years before. That's how his part was written in the book.
The other theory is the one that Matt mentioned, which deals with quantum mechanics. This theory states that for every forward-moving action that occurs an alternate reality/dimension is created where it didn't occur, being replaced by a transverse action. If there were numerous actions that could have been taken, then numerous realities/dimensions are created, one for each action. This is believed to be true even down to the subatomic level and is continuous throughout your existence. The result is that there is an infinite number of parallel realities/dimensions that underlie what our perception of reality is. My graphic novel (perpetually in progress) actually totally surrounds this concept.
The problem with this theory, though, is that in order for it to apply properly to the Desmond story there would have to be some primary reality that the changes effect, which is impossible with this theory, because all parallels are equally valid. And each person holds within them a nearly infinite number of variable realities based on their conscious actions--not even taking into account the variables put into place by nature and quantum matter. So overlap between these variable realities from one person to another person to create a concrete change in the reality of one of the subjects (i.e. a magically appearing journal entry) cannot occur without creating a new and separate reality. It would have to be the same Faraday reading the entry as the Faraday who wrote it. It goes back to the changing the future thing, but reversed. You can't change the past to affect a new future without paradox, and paradox is not a creating force--that could make a journal entry appear--but a destructive one. So it goes back to the same issue. Faraday and Desmond were both fulfilling their futures, slaves to inevitability, because the creation of an alternate reality/dimension through unforseen action would not change events that had already occured in the reality that spawned the change.
I look at this kind of as Donnie Darko. WhereSpoiler:Seemed to me that Faraday may have thought all that was a dream until some event triggered it all in his mind and that would be Desmond's splice.
Faraday will be doing some crazy experiment next episode, woooweee.
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Good call! On the podcast a fan asked a question about Daniel Faraday - the question was from before The Constant had aired, and they wanted to know if the reason for Faraday's memory loss (illustrated by Daniel and Charlotte playing a game with playing cards in Eggtown - where Daniel seemed unable to recall which card was where once they'd been turned over.) Damon Lindeloff answered that, yes, his memory loss was part of a pre-existing condition.
I'd hazard a good guess that Daniel is one of those susceptible to the island's side effects, because of having been exposed to radiation/electromagnestism in the way you pointed out, Bev. It also covers why Faraday does not remember Desmond.
I think Aaron's post pretty much covered it - this was also discussed in the podcast rehash of The Constant. Damon and Carlton said that for the way they are choosing to look at time travel and its effects, the best thing to do is rewatch Flashes Before Your Eyes for the conversation Desmond has with Ms Hawking, as she explains everything.It was that "change the future" question that got me. It seemed significant and the dude seemed a little weird when he answered.
But its not like you can imo. Each "future" is specific to the time line and all traveling into the past would do is create a new one.
Not changed...new (boggles his own mind)
Damon said that he was aware that some time travel concepts create paradoxes. (He used Heroes as an example, saying that if future Hiro travels back in time to tell himself that he needs to save the cheerleader, then once the cheerleader is saved the future Hiro that delivered the message now no longer exists as the disaster that caused him to time travel with his message has been averted.) But went on to state that:
One of the reasons for doing it this way, he said, was to avoid viewers mistaking flash forwards for possible futures when we should be viewing them as absolute futures. He also referred back to Ms. Hawking again, and what she told Desmond about "course correcting" - which is to do with certain events being fate/destiny, and that how even if you try to change it, the universe "course corrects" to ensure it happens anyway (Charlie and all the Final Destination type stuff, for example) . He said we will be getting alot more on the theme of destiny later in the series.We are very paradox averse. That is to say, when our characters are time travelling, nothing they do can change the present or the future that you have seen.
Other interesting podcast info was:
*After episode 7 all of the Oceanic 6 will have been revealed.
*After another fan question about the polar bear in the Tunisian desert, Damon and Carlton revealed that there are certain places in the world that are special in relation to the show. The location in Tunisia is one, Ayers Rock is another.
*The Orchid Station video was mentioned, they said perhaps the most salient point is why Dr Hallorwax was so concerned that the two no.15 rabbits should be in the same place together.
I think Aaron's post pretty much covered it - this was also discussed in the podcast rehash of The Constant. Damon and Carlton said that for the way they are choosing to look at time travel and its effects, the best thing to do is rewatch Flashes Before Your Eyes for the conversation Desmond has with Ms Hawking, as she explains everything.[/quote]Not changed...new (boggles his own mind)
Yes, she does.
lol, the theme of destiny has been prevailant through the whole series and I always viewed season three's main theme as fate/destiny. Most of that season dealt it.Damon said that he was aware that some time travel concepts create paradoxes. (He used Heroes as an example, saying that if future Hiro travels back in time to tell himself that he needs to save the cheerleader, then once the cheerleader is saved the future Hiro that delivered the message now no longer exists as the disaster that caused him to time travel with his message has been averted.) But went on to state that:
One of the reasons for doing it this way, he said, was to avoid viewers mistaking flash forwards for possible futures when we should be viewing them as absolute futures. He also referred back to Ms. Hawking again, and what she told Desmond about "course correcting" - which is to do with certain events being fate/destiny, and that how even if you try to change it, the universe "course corrects" to ensure it happens anyway (Charlie and all the Final Destination type stuff, for example) . He said we will be getting alot more on the theme of destiny later in the series.We are very paradox averse. That is to say, when our characters are time travelling, nothing they do can change the present or the future that you have seen.
Well, I don't think the universe automatically course corrects. I think Ms. Hawking was simply saying that future doesn't change and if you tried to save someone over and over again then you were always meant to. Desmond was meant to keep Charlie alive long enough to dive into The Looking Glass thus, the universe didn't course correct at all. Much like how he was meant to come back in the sailboat to blow the hatch to be exposed to the electromagnetism to save charlie so he can go to the freighter, to go have the events of The Constant to happen.
Man, I hate podcasts, at least to do with this show. But maybe that's just me. I'm more of the wait and find out and figure it all out rather than get told places in the world are special etc. I've tried to stay from these podcasts. Can I ask for all podcast informations to be in spoiler tags? I really enjoy the mysteries.Other interesting podcast info was:
*After episode 7 all of the Oceanic 6 will have been revealed.
*After another fan question about the polar bear in the Tunisian desert, Damon and Carlton revealed that there are certain places in the world that are special in relation to the show. The location in Tunisia is one, Ayers Rock is another.
I read up on the Casamir effect. It has something to do with two a physical force coming out of two uncharged things. Apparently, in terms of lost, it means that if two of these things (IE bunnies with same number) have no charge put are placed near each other, it produces a physical force which often kills the hosts.*The Orchid Station video was mentioned, they said perhaps the most salient point is why Dr Hallorwax was so concerned that the two no.15 rabbits should be in the same place together.
This would attribute the unique properties mentioned in The Orchid orientation video and would also be representative of the time differential. Time Dialation has been said to be this could very well explain, at least, how Ben gets off the island and even the Polar Bear in Tunisia.
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Of course it is - but in the context of the conversation on the podcast they meant something more specific than a theme.
.Well, I don't think the universe automatically course corrects. I think Ms. Hawking was simply saying that future doesn't change and if you tried to save someone over and over again then you were always meant to. Desmond was meant to keep Charlie alive long enough to dive into The Looking Glass thus, the universe didn't course correct at all. Much like how he was meant to come back in the sailboat to blow the hatch to be exposed to the electromagnetism to save charlie so he can go to the freighter, to go have the events of The Constant to happen
Well, for the purpose of Lost it does course correct - the guys doing the podcast are Damon Lindeloff and Carlton Cuse, writers and executive producers, so if they say "Charlie was meant to die and no matter how many times Desmond tried to save him, the universe would eventually find a way to kill him regardless." then thats what they mean
.Man, I hate podcasts, at least to do with this show. But maybe that's just me. I'm more of the wait and find out and figure it all out rather than get told places in the world are special etc. I've tried to stay from these podcasts. Can I ask for all podcast informations to be in spoiler tags? I really enjoy the mysteries
They never give away spoilers on the Official Lost podcast. Knowing Tunisia and Ayers rock are special places is no more a spoiler than watching the Orchid Station training video.
But the episode the constant means that Desmond had been back in time meaning that in order for that time line to exist, Charlie had to enter the looking glass meaning the universe didn't course correct and everything played out as intended.Well, for the purpose of Lost it does course correct - the guys doing the podcast are Damon Lindeloff and Carlton Cuse, writers and executive producers, so if they say "Charlie was meant to die and no matter how many times Desmond tried to save him, the universe would eventually find a way to kill him regardless." then thats what they mean
The orchid station was released with the other season four promos before season four started. I got no such details from that like me being told we'll find out all the oceanic six before the break, I don't need to know this yet now I know something about the next two episodes that I didn't previously. All because of that podcast, which is a spoiler, by my definition, kind of like Kate's pregnancy being the focus of epsiode 4. Also knowing about those sites being being special makes me wonder if this casamir effect is used to create wormholes which only go to certain areas thus explaining the polar bear in Tunisia. I'm not saying they give things away but they do expend information appearing future episodes I'd rather not hear of.They never give away spoilers on the Official Lost podcast. Knowing Tunisia and Ayers rock are special places is no more a spoiler than watching the Orchid Station training video.
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Well by your definition of "spoiler" Mattrick....you shouldn't be in this thread!
I can't wait for tonight's episode!
The events that took place in the Looking Glass weren't actions that only Charlie could have performed - anyone could have pressed that button. Infact it was possible for Charlie to press the button and escape (as could anybody else have done).
The point was, not that Charlie had to die at that moment, but his realisation that he had been meant to die at an earlier point and that the universe would continue to course correct until he died. When he accepted his imminent death, Des's visions stopped and Charlie chose to accept this death as the implications of his actions leading upto it were noble and for a greater good (or so he believed!)
You learn about the fact that Dharma was experimenting with the Casimir Effect, a pretty big spoiler by your standards considering what it implies.The orchid station was released with the other season four promos before season four started. I got no such details from that like me being told we'll find out all the oceanic six before the break, I don't need to know this yet now I know something about the next two episodes that I didn't previously.
I know who the last two O6 are!! anyone want to know??
.Spoiler:
^
just in case.
on a side note.
this is page ....23!
Does anyone else wonder why they didn't just cut the cable to The Looking Glass?
I'm not sure. Perhaps Ben needed it operational for some reason we don't know yet? He did have Greta and Bonnie stationed there, eventhough he could have just flooded it, as he had the rest of the Others believe. It would have remained jammed anyway.
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