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Thread: Doors Between Worlds

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    Default Doors Between Worlds

    What causes the doors? Roland makes a guess that --

    ... On one end, my ka. On the other, that of the man in black -- Walter. The doors were the center, creations of the tension between two opposing destinies. ...
    -- DT III The Waste Lands
    I think that ka definitely exists within the books, and that DT III makes that most clear, but I have a feeling that some folken here will disagree with Roland's interpretation, and others might just be able to conjecture more detail. So, what do you think? How does all of that work?
    Last edited by Darkthoughts; 08-27-2011 at 01:15 PM.

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    In my opinion, is the magic of the Bear-Turtle Beam working on Roland's side. I think the Beams can works for people willing to protect them. For me, ka is not a "being" like the Tower or the Guardians, Ka is the interpretation of the destiny, and when you understands it everything seems a repetition of the past.

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    Just changed the title of this thread to make it more self explanatory, I love the question you pose Path and am surprised it hasn't had more interest.

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    Fundraiser Emeritus Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958's Avatar

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    My interpert tation has always been that "The Technology" of man opened the "Doors". "The Mist" and the DT books is where I get that immpresion, but I'm open, I suppose. Always seemed like a slam dunk in that direction. Other thoughts?

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    I have always thought that the doors were structural part of the multiverse, akin to such concepts as top, bottom, color, direction, time and space. None of those make without the observer, and the same applies to the doors. Throughout the recorded history there's been tales of disappearances, appearances and passages; the doors are not different from Alice's rabbit hole.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

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    Army of the 12 Monkeys pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle's Avatar

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    Does this imply that their appearances are random? Is it only an illusion of observers that there's some innate purpose about a passage appearing in a specific time and place leading into another specific time and place?

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    Fundraiser Emeritus Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    I have always thought that the doors were structural part of the multiverse, akin to such concepts as top, bottom, color, direction, time and space. None of those make without the observer, and the same applies to the doors. Throughout the recorded history there's been tales of disappearances, appearances and passages; the doors are not different from Alice's rabbit hole.
    I could be mistaken, but I seem to recall several references to the Military scientists "Ripping open" a doorway to another universe. I admit its a vague memory, but I seem to recall the references in "The Mist" and SoS (specifically when they are in Fedic Station).

    Anybody else have a better memory?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pathoftheturtle View Post
    Does this imply that their appearances are random? Is it only an illusion of observers that there's some innate purpose about a passage appearing in a specific time and place leading into another specific time and place?
    No, not quite. It's rather that some people are blind, or color-blind, or deaf (although the majority is not); the ability to interact with the passages gives an opposite proportion: the majority is door-blind/deaf/numb. This doesn't have to be a physical quality, by the way, but a quality created by destiny (tension between protagonist and antagonist works as well, so Roland was actually talking sense), which you might indeed, in Roland's terms, call ka (in Roland's terms, I said). A door may be a phenomenon appearing out of the interaction between man and universe, as defined by his place in the universe and his role in the [re]arranging of the order of things. Most people are left out of the process, some are active agents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    I have always thought that the doors were structural part of the multiverse, akin to such concepts as top, bottom, color, direction, time and space. None of those make without the observer, and the same applies to the doors. Throughout the recorded history there's been tales of disappearances, appearances and passages; the doors are not different from Alice's rabbit hole.
    I could be mistaken, but I seem to recall several references to the Military scientists "Ripping open" a doorway to another universe. I admit its a vague memory, but I seem to recall the references in "The Mist" and SoS (specifically when they are in Fedic Station).

    Anybody else have a better memory?
    I don't think it contradicts what I said. There are molecules, but nobody saw them before that big strong microscope was invented. I think "ripping open" means mainly making it visible and interactable (I know there is no such word) for people who were not supposed to see or use it.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Fundraiser Emeritus Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958 seldom gets put on hold Merlin1958's Avatar

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    Guess I tend toward the more literal, but path does have a point. If they were a part of the fabric of the universe then it stands to reason that they would only be accessible at the pre-existing points in time and space. My understanding is that they could be opened anywhere. Maybe more to the point the impression the books give IMHO is that the white coats opened them where they preferred. Also that "Gan" or Ka could open them where needed for its purposes. Like the doors on the beach.

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    My thoughts are more similar to Jean's. Other whens and wheres are within reach to anyone at all times, but the skill - or knack even - of opening doors is not inherent in everyone. Some are maybe naturally talented at it, while others would need to be taught.

    I think the instances where you find a pre-existing physical door (or rabbit hole, etc) are places where someone (or some corporation in somecases, NCP, Sombra etc) has opened a way and has made it permenant.

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    I think that's what I think, only stated in a much clearer way than I did. I don't know for certain, though, not really. The concept of the doors is fascinating, and at the same time kinda intuitively clear. I think everyone - at least as a child, though with some people it remains forever - felt that doors are more than just constructions in the three-dimensional space.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Yes! Definitely, I think children probably create doors all the time when they are at play.

    I did try to simplify my thoughts in the previous post there, but at the same time I would also agree with you that, even though the concept of doors/doorways is clear in itself it's also so vastly complex we could discuss it forever...hooray!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    My thoughts are more similar to Jean's. Other whens and wheres are within reach to anyone at all times, but the skill - or knack even - of opening doors is not inherent in everyone. Some are maybe naturally talented at it, while others would need to be taught.

    I think the instances where you find a pre-existing physical door (or rabbit hole, etc) are places where someone (or some corporation in somecases, NCP, Sombra etc) has opened a way and has made it permenant.
    Well bargained and done!...

    But also I believe that the tower/rose will and can protect itself...and the tower opens those doors for those who are aware of the impending doom the tower/rose faces.

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    Yes, good point!

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    Army of the 12 Monkeys pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle's Avatar

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    Yes, but then you must ask what TMIB would know about that. It is him and his that the Tower needs to protect itself against; how could he predict what it would do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pathoftheturtle View Post
    Yes, but then you must ask what TMIB would know about that. It is him and his that the Tower needs to protect itself against; how could he predict what it would do?
    Well actually that's very simple. Stands to reason that Chaos would counter any move that Order made and vice versa. So if Order opened a door, chaos would look to close it, offset it or render it useless. No?

    Ultimately, its a never-ending chess match that always ends in "Check" (hopefully)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pathoftheturtle View Post
    Yes, but then you must ask what TMIB would know about that. It is him and his that the Tower needs to protect itself against; how could he predict what it would do?
    Well actually that's very simple. Stands to reason that Chaos would counter any move that Order made and vice versa. So if Order opened a door, chaos would look to close it, offset it or render it useless. No?

    Ultimately, its a never-ending chess match that always ends in "Check" (hopefully)
    and is a near perfect illustration (in words) of two things...
    1)a law of physics..."For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction"
    2)the balance of the universe [the first truth], if ever upset, ends all existence (hence the Tower falls)....
    Spoiler:
    therefore there could only ever be ONE ending, which is the one Sai King provided... an eternal loop with Roland chasing TMIB, the WHITE trying to counter its opposite, and vice versa.

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    Well, all I can say about that is that balanced chaos is a contradiction in terms. Maybe yes, God ultimately has the upper hand and like it or not, even the bad guys serve the Beam, but I would never call that very simple. Actually, just how and how much TMIB influenced the Drawing of the Three, what he was expecting/hoping for, and where he got his information all seems still pretty confused.

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    I never believed the doors were real initially but a hallucination by Roland. Eventually I see them as real "physical" doors but never assumed their locations were fixed and Roland had to find them. More the doors came to his location when the time was right. Never thought of time + fixed location was needed. Wherever he was...the door would appear at the right time.

    Manni tribe do it without these doors. Or they bring their own door with them. Or a different type of door maybe?

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    Since my own personal pet title for The Dark Tower is "Stephen King's Just 'Cuz Chronicles," I'd say the doors are there just 'cuz.
    God bless Poland.

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