Betts Books

[Brian861]

While I haven't done a lot of business with David, the experiences I have dealing with him are superb. Just a great guy all around.

[wizardsrainbow]

Customer Gunslinger S/L Update:

Bottom line: Found out today that VISA sided with its customer and I'm still out $7500. Just unreal!...Quickly for those of you who don't know, I sold a consigned Gunslinger S/L marked "Special" (the only one I've ever seen in 30 years) to a repeat customer of mine in Virginia in June. I gave him free shipping, even sent book Express and sent him tracking number the day I shipped (so a day before it was to be delivered). In late August, I get notice from Intuit (my Quickbooks CC processing company/accounting provider) that he challenged my $7500 VISA charge...protocol dictates that they take $7500 from my Betts checking to make the guy "whole" and it is up to me to prove my innocence. I file 23 pages of data with Intuit to support that I did everything correct and even have a statement from USPS that shows package delivered. Intuit forwards my supporting docs to VISA. I call customer to say I'm out $7500 and he says sorry, I (me) did nothing wrong and he thinks Post Office should be responsible as package was "stolen" from his porch. I ask him to reverse the claim. He says he will talk to VISA.....I call Intuit a couple weeks later and they tell me VISA has 60 days to respond....well that means October 29th.

So I call Intuit today....they put me on hold to speak to VISA and come back to tell me that VISA sided with customer and that the case is now closed. I'm pretty furious (and for those of you who know me, my "fuse" is a mile long, so to piss me off takes some doing). I call Intuit again demanding to speak to a case manager. She tells me that I'd never win anyway despite all my "evidence" because I did not do signature confirmation....for those of you who print/ship their own labels, USPS.com does NOT give you option on Express for signature...I have figured out now afterward that you must first choose Priority Mail, choose Signature Confirmation and them change shipping to Express which will keep the Sig Conf behind the scenes (again, found this out the hard way)...So Intuit tells me today that I should call the customer myself (well, I've done that twice to no avail).

I investigated quickly small claims court in VA but limit is $5,000. A customer and friend from VA told me today that I'd have trouble in the VA court system anyway because no signature was required (even though I did everything customer asked AND gave him free shipping AND I have Delivery Confirmation from post office). Best advice so far is to file a police report with local police.

I'm still out $7500 which for me is a HUGE amount of money to be lost. I have consignees to pay etc. I'm looking for advice on how to proceed. I'm not one for charity but I've thought bout starting a "Go Fund Me" for my situation. I'm not saying this "loss" would put me out of business but it is a severe hurt for Betts. What are my options?

[firemonkey66]

If you file a police report, could you get your insurance to cover it as a stolen item?

[Dr. Dawg]

How awful, David. This makes me sick to my stomach. Did neither Intuit or Visa think it suspicious that there was a 2 month delay or more on reporting non-delivery of such an expensive item?

[Brian James Freeman]

Customer Gunslinger S/L Update:

Didn't this guy also take months to say, "oh yeah, it never showed up, by the way" on a $7500 item?!?!

Brian

[Roseannebarr]

If you file a police report, could you get your insurance to cover it as a stolen item?

I would go the insurance route too!

[Roseannebarr]

I will send you something in the mail to help offset a very small part of your loss. You can sell it or keep it. Others feel free to follow my lead.

I am out of $$ or I would go the GO FUND ME route. But I have plenty of duplicate books and will be happy to send you one (or two) to sell.

[Father Cody]

First thing that comes to mind is to ask this customer if he/she’s willing to split the damages with you. After all he/she has admitted it was not your fault.

[Earl of Popkin]

Unreal. I’m sorry David. I am so sick and tired of responsible people bearing the burden of those that aren’t.

[andyg75]

I also think that something about the delay in raising the issue stinks to high heaven. The more I think about it, the more I think that this person has decided that they can’t afford this, and as there was no signature required, has thought that they can have their cake and eat it.

The community should keep their eyes open for this becoming available at some point in the future (although if they have indeed kept the book, that would be unlikely).

In the meantime, I’d be happy to try and help David in some way, whatever he prefers us to do

[Pasiuk57]

Our Post Office is so bad. On October 2nd I found a pink slip in my PO Box. I was out of town. Wife went the next day and PO could not find the two letters(worth $400). So I told her to back a day later. Nope could not find them. So then On Oct 12 we got another Pink Slip FINAL NOTICE. My wife went again that day. Nope not to be found. On Oct 15 I go, and my fuse is not long, so I rag on this person. Nope cannot find them. I told her I'd be back in two days and to "look a lot harder as the envelopes did not grow feet and arms and walk or crawl away". So I go back two days later, she sees me coming and says. nope could not find them. I filed a claim at USPS.com detailing the slips, idiotic responses etc. It was not the $400 but what was inside the envelope that was one of a kind. Anyway-on October 24-22 days after the first pink slip-they PO called me and they found BOTH envelopes from two different people claiming they were "on the shelf". No rhyme nor reason why, just that they found them. They DID get a call from USPS HQ and somehow they found them.
NO where near David's amount, but the bottom line NO ONE waits when they order something worth $7000+ dollars. If I did not get it in a day, I would be calling David. NO WAY I wait two months to report it. No excuse on my part could be any percent intelligent in that regard. DId I forget I just spent $7500?? Doubtful.
You can have all the proof and still lose is a travesty to the PO system, which is clearly broke.
I now get an email every am from the USPS scanning all of my incoming mail that day. It works great. I signed up for it on USPS.com.
Not perfect but I know when something valuable is coming. Pink slips did NOT help at all in that situation.
It does make you never, ever want to use the US Postal system.
Over the years I can not say how many packages I've had come in from David-ALL in perfect shape. ALL of them.
Just sickening with all your paperwork.....

[Room 217 Caretaker]

I also am happy to sell some things from Room 217 to help Betts recoup the $7500.

Ralph

[amd013]

I just did a quick search to see if there are any resources to help find stolen property be sold on the web. You might want to check out this site:

https://www.americanalarm.com/blog/w...en-items-04484

So if on the off chance it was stolen off his porch and the thief try to sell it somehow maybe you might get lucky.

Unfortunately because the jackhole waited so long in reporting it, any chance of a neighbors security camera having caught the thief in the act is probably gone.

And I must say I don't know many people who have a fuse $7500 long, so you have every right to be angry.

Hopefully he will do the right thing and at least offer to split the lose with you.

[zelig]

I say start a gofundme and anyone who can chip in do so. I will for sure. Even if you don’t make it all back you will get something, and likely more than what you would get through other methods. Unless the insurance thing will produce results. I feel that as members of this community we should help out if we are able to in situations like this.

[Lurker]

I know you're probably fed up with it all, but does VISA have an appeal process?

Have you read Dispute Management Guidelines for Visa Merchants. Not sure what the initials mean, but it appears if the charge was not made in person you don't need a signature -

For a Card-Absent Environment Transaction in which the merchandise is delivered, documentation (evidence of delivery and time delivered) that the item was delivered to the same physical address for which the Merchant received an AVS match of Y or M. A signature is not required as evidence of delivery.

[becca69]

I'm with Paul.

[Br!an]

The Go Fund Me is a good idea.

If you sue anyone it should be VISA. Speak to an attorney capable of taking them on. The disadvantage being they are certainly capable of putting up an aggressive defense. The advantage being you should be able to file locally.

If VISA doesn't officially advise merchants that signature confirmation is required for postal delivery then you will likely win the suit.

[webstar1000]

Just seeing this now. You must be losing it David. Here to help in any way I can my man!!!


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[Fsmdr]

David,

I would also publicly name that buyer. It would serve us as a community to know who we should avoid dealing with. Just my 2 cents. Very bad news and we are all upset over this.

[peripheral]

Oh Christ, what a gigantic ball ache... Some great ideas up the thread - let us know what you choose to do, David - bottom line is, you have an army of Goodfellas on here, behind you.

[webstar1000]

David,

I would also publicly name that buyer. It would serve us as a community to know who we should avoid dealing with. Just my 2 cents. Very bad news and we are all upset over this.

I agree with this as well....


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[The Library Policeman]

I’m in for helping too, David. Let us know which way you want to go!
I wouldn’t have most of the high end (for me) items in my collection if you hadn’t let me pay on layaway. You’re a gentleman and this fucking sucks!

[HONKYTONKSMASH]

Agree with everything said..this is horseshit. Here to help any way I can

[darkseer]

Sorry, for your lose David, especially when you do everything right and still get screwed.

[jsmcmullen92]

Quoting this to bring it to the top of the pile. Sounds like they don't have justifiable evidence to say you are in the wrong.

I know you're probably fed up with it all, but does VISA have an appeal process?

Have you read Dispute Management Guidelines for Visa Merchants. Not sure what the initials mean, but it appears if the charge was not made in person you don't need a signature -

For a Card-Absent Environment Transaction in which the merchandise is delivered, documentation (evidence of delivery and time delivered) that the item was delivered to the same physical address for which the Merchant received an AVS match of Y or M. A signature is not required as evidence of delivery.

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