Swine Flu Vaccine

[Woofer]

Told you I'm a med student, and day by day I see patients in the hospital with the AH1N1 flu. It's a disease that CAN be prevented if people just cared about it, example: if you got the symptoms, you really need to get tested. That way we can prevent so many cases in the whole world... but then, we're only people.

About the vaccine... well, let me tell you that a virus (especially this one) mutates A LOT during one year. So, this vaccine will ONLY be effective against certain type of flu. If the virus continues in the world for a couple of years more, it'll be different every single time. A vaccine is made of dead (or only weakened) virus that interacts with your body and in that way you can create antibodies. By itself, the human body is weak against this flu unless it gets treated. It developes quickly, lows your defenses and let another disease (bacterial, fungus or anything else) get into your body. The so called "swine flu" does not kill you, the opportunistic infections do.

Why the eldery people and the childs? As you have said, they're a group of persons that can easily get the flu. But then, what happens to the rest of the people who doesn't gets the shot? They get the flu. If you read the reports of deaths, you can see that most of them were (and will be) of the group of persons between 18 and 40 approximately, I don't have the exact numbers right here with me. That's the real risk group, by now. But of course, also childs and elder people dies. No one is safe, really. It's just a flu, after all, and everyone can get it like it was another flu.

It's serious, this AH1N1 flu issue, and let me tell you, I beg ya, that dying of this is an awful way of dying. I've seen it, and I'm afraid I'll see it for a long time now.

Wanna take the shot? Go ahead. Don't wanna take it? Go ahead. The problem is that it will become available first to us, the ones that are in direct touch with those patients, and of course people in risk groups. If there's more vaccines, then probably it will be distributed to certain populations. Don't worry, just take care of yourselfs: follow the recommendations of washing hands, avoiding clumping of people, etc... and don't go into panic, 'cause that's the worse thing we can do.

If you need some especific information about the flu or anything related, let me know.

Greetings from first line of the battle,
México.

Welcome, murlodin. Excellent post. You summarized precisely why I don't get flu vaccines but do follow recommendations re: washing/sanitizers, consulting at the first signs, etc. Thanks!

[Mr. Rabbit Trick]

The problem is that it will become available first to us, the ones that are in direct touch with those patients, and of course people in risk groups. If there's more vaccines, then probably it will be distributed to certain populations.

I think you may be a bit misled there. The vaccine will be available to "Legslators" and "VIPs" long before the medical students get it.

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

First off, let me preface my post by saying that I am a Doctor of Pharmacology.

Now, I would get the H1N1 aka Swine Flu vaccine if available. However, it will likely not become available for the general public.

Now to dispell a few myths.
1.The injectable vaccine is made from a killed vaccine and consists of a few proteins (like the virus capsid) that is recoginized by your immune system and causes you to generate antibodies to the virus, WITHOUT actually exposing you to the live virus. IT HAS 0% CHANCE OF CAUSING THE FLU. Trust me on this. However, the intranasal vaccine is a live attenuated virus and I do not recommend it, particularly if you have a weakened immune system.
2. The flu vaccine is altered every year in response to the CDC's recommendation of what will likely be the most commen strains. Each year the vaccine is made up from the two most likely strains. This year the H1N1 vaccine will be an extra vaccine made in exactly the same fashion as the flu vaccine is always made. Those saying that this new swine flu vaccine has not been studied adequately are uninformed. The vaccine is at least as safe as any flu vaccine.

These things said, dont get the vaccine if you are currently experiencing a fever, and do not get the vaccine if you are allergic to eggs.

[murlodin]

The problem is that it will become available first to us, the ones that are in direct touch with those patients, and of course people in risk groups. If there's more vaccines, then probably it will be distributed to certain populations.

I think you may be a bit misled there. The vaccine will be available to "Legslators" and "VIPs" long before the medical students get it.

No, my friend, this vaccine has showed a close relationship with GBS (Guillain Barré Syndrome), legislators and VIPs won't take it. Besides, told you I'm (we're, all students and everyone else in medical services) in direct contact with those patients. If we die, who you're gonna call? There are some problems with side effects, so they're thinking a lot about taking it out to the market.


Haha... ghostbusters!

[rosie real]

i miss nyquil.

[AIMB]

No I won't be poisoning myself or my child with vaccines anytime soon. I'm not really in the mood for heavy metal poisoning anytime soon, no matter how slight. I like my brain the way it is.

[Patrick]

I never bothered with flu shots before I had kids, and even after the first one came along. These days I've got a 6-year old with respiratory issues and a 3-month old who caught pertussis (whooping cough) five or so weeks ago and will have it for at least another month. Despite the cute smile in the only photo I have posted in a while (in another thread), serious sickness is hell on babies.

Vaccines don't scare me. Shots don't scare me. I don't know if I'd ever be eligible for the vaccine, but I'll take it if given the opportunity. The thought of my small children contracting serious illnesses does scare me. I would feel like a negligent parent were I to put their health at risk because I got a flu when it could have been avoided with a simple shot myself.

No I won't be poisoning myself or my child with vaccines anytime soon. I'm not really in the mood for heavy metal poisoning anytime soon, no matter how slight. I like my brain the way it is.

You can avoid the mercury these days. Please read the posts above from the members in the medical profession and, more importantly, consult your pediatrician.

[John Blaze]

See! I thought you got swine flu by having sex with pigs!

So that's what happened!

I voted no because I already had it. And my wife and baby daughter have it right now, (it's big in my state right now) My 2 yr old hasn't had it, so I'll probably have her take it. One of the reasons, and the most important, is if I didn't and something happened to her, child services can prosecute you for stuff like that in my state. I'd hate to lose my daughter, it would literally kill me, but to lose one in that way and another because she got taken away because I lost the other? i don't think so.

[John Blaze]

The thought of my small children contracting serious illnesses does scare me. I would feel like a negligent parent were I to put their health at risk because I got a flu when it could have been avoided with a simple shot myself.

No I won't be poisoning myself or my child with vaccines anytime soon. I'm not really in the mood for heavy metal poisoning anytime soon, no matter how slight. I like my brain the way it is.

You can avoid the mercury these days. Please read the posts above from the members in the medical profession and, more importantly, consult your pediatrician.

THIS is what I meant. And AIMB, really, I get all my kids shots mercury free, and at the most it's like 10 dollars more. Check the laws of your state though, because in some you can risk getting your kids taken away by not vaccinating them. It's a negligency argument.

[mia/susannah]

I am undecided still. My doctor recommends that I get the swine flu baccine because of my COPD. But what if your immune systems overworks?

[Patrick]

The thought of my small children contracting serious illnesses does scare me. I would feel like a negligent parent were I to put their health at risk because I got a flu when it could have been avoided with a simple shot myself.

No I won't be poisoning myself or my child with vaccines anytime soon. I'm not really in the mood for heavy metal poisoning anytime soon, no matter how slight. I like my brain the way it is.

You can avoid the mercury these days. Please read the posts above from the members in the medical profession and, more importantly, consult your pediatrician.

THIS is what I meant. And AIMB, really, I get all my kids shots mercury free, and at the most it's like 10 dollars more. Check the laws of your state though, because in some you can risk getting your kids taken away by not vaccinating them. It's a negligency argument.

[Mark]

Well i've got swine flu right now, and it's nothing too bad, so no, i wont bother.

[jayson]

without going into a long rant, there is so much more to people's concerns over vaccines than the mercury issue. eliminating that does not make it all okay.

[LadyHitchhiker]

So what are the symptoms of swine flu and how does it vary from the normal flu? I mean how do you know to go get tested?

[rosie real]

now you know i have to say this:

here, let me google that for you.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=swine+flu+symptoms




(thanks for giving me a chance to use that!)

[Sam]

damn girl.
just damn.

[Patrick]

without going into a long rant, there is so much more to people's concerns over vaccines than the mercury issue. eliminating that does not make it all okay.

Absolutely. However it is the issue that came up earlier, so it was addressed. Also it seems to be an issue that is raised often and therefore gets a fair amount of discussion.

I fully support parents discussing with their pediatrician the whole vaccine issue on a holistic level and working out a plan (including timelines, splitting up combo vaccines, etc.) that makes sense to the parents.

Personally I have little respect for parents who choose to avoid all vaccines altogether for their kids. They are not only putting their own children at needless risk, they are putting mine at risk as well.



All this is somewhat tangential (and therefore perhaps somewhat off-topic) to the H1N1 vaccine question, which is all very new.

[jayson]

Personally I have little respect for parents who choose to avoid all vaccines altogether for their kids. They are not only putting their own children at needless risk, they are putting mine at risk as well.

i don't begrudge you your opinion, but to call it "needless" risk is just that, your opinion. agree or disagree, i would suggest that at least some percentage of these parents have done their research and have determined for themselves that there is a need for them to avoid vaccinating their children.

you're right though that it's probably not relevant to this particular conversation on h1n1, so i will leave it at that.

[Sam]

I have three very good reason to respect vaccines.
Polio
Smallpox
Tetanus
I've never had either of those diseases, and I have vaccines to thank. I've never been exposed to the possibility of having one of those and I have vaccines to thank for that too.

I have known a few (just a very few) parents who refused to get their kids vaccinated simply because "the gov'ment" told them they should. That's a few children who never received vaccinations for some very real child killers. It bothers me that someone would let their children be put at such risk, but at least those few parents had ignorance (I say stupidity but they really didn't know what they were doing, they just knew they weren't doing what the gov'ment wanted) as a defense. ANY parent wo would make such a decision knowing what the diseases they are exposing their child to, and what their chances are for getting said diseases both with and without those vaccinations is a fool and deserves any punishment their local or state government decides to dish out.

I will grant you that is my opinion, but it as a damn fact that children who have been vaccinated against diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, and a host of other diseases have a lesser chance of contracting them than children who have not been vaccinated.

[jayson]

it is also a damn fact that children who have not been vaccinated have not been exposed to the potential side effects either.

as i said earlier, the mercury issue is far from being the only potential danger involved with vaccines.

until you actually have a child and have to wrestle with the very real possibility that the vaccine is going to effect them negatively, i don't think it's your place to be calling anyone a fool who warrants punishment from the government.

we won't even discuss how exceptionally fascist is the notion that a government should be able to punish those who do not subscribe to the official state stance on medicine.

quite frankly, until our government is no longer made up of people who take millions of dollars from pharmaceutical companies, i have no faith that the studies on the alleged safety are to be believed.

if that sounds cynical or conspiratorial, so be it. we're talking about the health of my child and i won't accept the government's word simply because they are the government. in case you haven't noticed, governments tend to lie.

the fact of the matter is, there is more risk involved than the contraction of some of these diseases.

it's not nearly as black and white as you seem to want to paint it.

maybe some parents never think twice about it. good for them.

maybe some people think the potential side effects are nothing but the ravings of conspiracy theorists. good for them too.

the fact is, these are the kinds of decisions one is faced with as a parent and i can tell you from my own experience alone, it is fucking terrifying to sit there as your baby gets that shot not knowing if this is the time you become the statistic.

that is a very real and very valid fear and quite frankly, to be called foolish for thinking so is ludicrous.

to be called foolish for thinking so by someone with no children of their own is downright offensive and something i cannot abide.

like i said to patrick earlier, i don't begrudge you your opinion one bit, but until it's more than a hypothetical, i strongly suggest you couch that opinion in terms a bit less offensive to those of us who actually face these issues.

[Patrick]

...to call it "needless" risk is just that, your opinion. agree or disagree, i would suggest that at least some percentage of these parents have done their research and have determined for themselves that there is a need for them to avoid vaccinating their children...

Yes, I believe it is putting children, yours and mine, at needless risk for parents to decide that vaccines are unnecessary - without a strong personal medical reason. To use just polio as an example, the reason some un-vaccinated kid likely won't get it is, more than anything else, because the rest of us are vaccinating our kids. I do not believe in free rides on a societal level, and putting the vaccine burden on every other family is, in my opinion, exactly that: societal freeloading. However I do agree that if there is a valid medical reason that a certain person should avoid any and all vaccines, then by all means, that is the path one takes.

...
the fact is, these are the kinds of decisions one is faced with as a parent and i can tell you from my own experience alone, it is fucking terrifying to sit there as your baby gets that shot not knowing if this is the time you become the statistic...that is a very real and very valid fear...

I agree. I really do.

It is also terrifying to rush your 2-1/2 month old baby to the ER and have her spend the night in the hospital because she keeps choking thanks to whooping cough. That was my Labor Day weekend.

But this is far more terrifying:

To come home from taking your other kids out to a casual dinner and find a fire engine and an ambulance in front of your house - with all the siren-lights going and all the neighbors standing in a big group a respectful distance away, but all staring at your house. And to actually have the presence of mind to park in a neighbor's driveway because you don't want to block the ambulance's quick exit if that is necessary. And to rush into your own home to find five medical emergency personnel in full gear standing there in your house. And to feel joy when you hear your baby cry because you know that means she is still alive. That was the time my wife called 911 about two weeks ago.

I don't like to be dramatic, so that's why I almost never talk about these situations online or off, but there it is.

Anyway, yeah, my opinion, folks: Do your homework, consult your physician, ask tough questions, but unless there is a strong medical reason not to, then develop a plan to immunize your kids.

[ola]

No, I probably won't get the shot because I usually take the walk-it-off approach, out of pure laziness. I'm terrible about going to the doctor.

[LadyHitchhiker]

According this site: http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Pandemi.../Symptoms.aspx
I may already have the swine flu. According to the site, if you have two or more of these symptoms, you may have the swine flu (I have bolded the ones I have):
* unusual tiredness,
* headache,
* runny nose,
* sore throat,
* shortness of breath or cough,
* loss of appetite,
* aching muscles,
* diarrhoea or vomiting.

Of course according to these symptoms I could also have Captain Trips.

[Jean]

According this site: http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Pandemi.../Symptoms.aspx
I may already have the swine flu. According to the site, if you have two or more of these symptoms, you may have the swine flu (I have bolded the ones I have):
* unusual tiredness,
* headache,
* runny nose,
* sore throat,
* shortness of breath or cough,
* loss of appetite,
* aching muscles,
* diarrhoea or vomiting.

Of course according to these symptoms I could also have Captain Trips.

I've had most of them for a few years by now.

[jayson]

I've had most of them for a few years by now.

yeah, i'm pretty sure those are the symptoms for a condition known as life.