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24. You may not vote on this poll
  • 10 - One of the best books ever

    8 33.33%
  • 9

    2 8.33%
  • 8

    4 16.67%
  • 7

    1 4.17%
  • 6

    4 16.67%
  • 5 - Average

    1 4.17%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    0 0%
  • 2

    2 8.33%
  • 1 - Hopelessly poor, wish I hadn't read it

    2 8.33%
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Thread: The Catcher in the Rye

  1. #26
    Weedeater BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by pablo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BROWNING'S CHILDE View Post
    I think that this excerpt sums up the writing style pretty well:

    pp: 81-82. "I think if you don't really like a girl, you shouldn't horse around with her at all, and if you do like her, then you're supposed to like her face, and if you like her face, you ought to be careful about doing crumby stuff to it, like squirting water all over it. It's really too bad that so much crumby stuff is a lot of fun sometimes. Girls aren't too much help, either, when you start trying not to get too crumby, when you start trying not to spoil anything really good. I knew this one girl, acouple of years ago, that was even crumbier than I was. Boy, was she crumby! We had a lot of fun, though, for a while, in a crumby way.
    I find repetition is a great writing tool. To each his own, I guess. Here, I think, it works to a great effect.

    I think that repetition is a crumby writing tool.

    Or maybe its just that I think Holden is a tool.
    Sloth Love Chunk

  2. #27
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ka-mai View Post
    My dad maintains that this book got famous because it was the first book to use the word "fuck." I'm not sure if he's right on that or not, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. There is nothing interesting about this book at all. Just a whiny kid. Big deal. I mean, I'm more in touch with my childhood and teen years than a lot of people I know, and I don't think I would have enjoyed this then, either. I would have been like "shut the fuck up and get a life, Holden." While I'm sure we thought alike somewhat, why on earth would I want to read about teen angst when I was surrounded by it 24/7?

    I just don't get it. I'd need a reread to make a more coherent rant, but that's what I have off the top of my head.
    Sarah: The first use of the word fuck (that I can track down) was in a manuscript from 1475 "They, that are the monks of Ely, they are not in Heaven because they fuck the wives of Ely." Many books used it between then and The Catcher In The Rye.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    Iíll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  3. #28
    Weedeater BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE's Avatar

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    1. If you were to perform a psychoanalysis of Holden, what would your diagnosis be? I think holden displays traits of several psychological disorders. Bipolar disorder seems to fit him the best, as he is always saying he is depressed. Much of the stimuli for his depression also seems, to me, trivial. This depression is mixed with periods of "mania" where he is restless and spontaneous. Spending sprees, increased sexual drive, distractability, drug abuse, and poor judment are just a few of the other characteristics that he displays that are consistent with bipolar disorder.
    Holden also displays many of the traits that are associated with ADHD or Attention Deficit and Hyperactivity Disorder. He is easily distracted by seemingly irrelevant stimuli. He seems unable to complete a task. Poor ability to adhere to social mores. Always on the go. etc.

    2. What words of wisdom, if any, did you think that Holden provided? Surprisingly, I caught myself several times thinking that Holden had said something with a bit of truth:

    1. Thatís the whole trouble. You canít ever find a place thatís nice and peaceful, because there isnít any. You may think there is, but once you get there, when youíre not looking, somebodyíll sneak up and write ďFuck youĒ right under your nose.

    2. Goddamn money. It always ends up making you blue as hell.

    3. You take a guy like Morrow thatís always snapping their towel at peopleís asses- really trying to hurt somebody with is- they donít just stay a rat while theyíre a kid. They stay a rat their whole life.

    4. The more expensive a school is, the more crooks it has.

    5. If you do something too good then, after a while, if you donít watch it, you start showing off.

    6. If a girl looks swell when she meets you, who gives a damn if sheís late?



    3. How do you think the title relates to Holden as a character?

    I felt like there were many times in the book where Holden acted the part of "The Catcher" or at least when he showed an uncommon empathy and consideration for others.
    1. The donation to the Nuns.
    2. His interaction with his sister.
    3. His generosity with his money (almost to a fault)
    4. Loaning Stradlater his coat and writing his paper for him.
    5. When he cries because Pheobe gave him her money.
    6. He stops making sexual advances when a girl says no.

    4. Why is Holden so afraid of phony people? Holden wants people to fit into nice neat catergories. He can't cope with people acting outside of his perceptions of their role. His use of the word is not reserved for those who act insincere. And in my opinion, when Holden uses the word so extensively to describe individuals whom he believes are acting superficially, he succeeds only in showing that his own perceptions of other is superficial.
    Sloth Love Chunk

  4. #29
    Little Bird Ka-mai has a spectacular aura about Ka-mai has a spectacular aura about Ka-mai has a spectacular aura about Ka-mai's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ka-mai View Post
    My dad maintains that this book got famous because it was the first book to use the word "fuck." I'm not sure if he's right on that or not, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. There is nothing interesting about this book at all. Just a whiny kid. Big deal. I mean, I'm more in touch with my childhood and teen years than a lot of people I know, and I don't think I would have enjoyed this then, either. I would have been like "shut the fuck up and get a life, Holden." While I'm sure we thought alike somewhat, why on earth would I want to read about teen angst when I was surrounded by it 24/7?

    I just don't get it. I'd need a reread to make a more coherent rant, but that's what I have off the top of my head.
    Sarah: The first use of the word fuck (that I can track down) was in a manuscript from 1475 "They, that are the monks of Ely, they are not in Heaven because they fuck the wives of Ely." Many books used it between then and The Catcher In The Rye.
    I meant more like, a book that a significant amount of people read within the past 100 years, but I get your point.

  5. #30
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by valtr0n View Post
    I liked it.

    I don't get the hatred or dislike for any book. It's like being mad at a chocolate sundae.
    I rather like the book in question, though solely because of the way it is written, which I find thoroughly entertaining; from any other point of view, I think I can say that I hate it. I don't believe books are akin to chocolate sundae or any other stuff we consume - if anything (which I doubt, because they constitute a phenomenon of their own), they may be compared to people we meet along the way and who may or may not influence us, deep or not, in this or that way - and thus can be loved or hated or treated with indifference; they, like people, can be friends, enemies, teachers, lovers, war criminals, corruptors, or murderers.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. #31
    Traveler Roni is on a distinguished road Roni's Avatar

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    I think that the plot could have been interresting if it wasn't so ful of repetitions (even though, sometimes it can be a useful tool) and never ending sentences. The rythm is somewhat tiring and at the end, you do wonder if it did worth it.
    I've only read a lame french translated version, though.

  7. #32
    BAZZINGA candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by flaggwalkstheline View Post
    I think one thing about this book illustrated by our various comments is this: either you get it or you dont and if you dont get, you wont
    i just think its a shame that any book has to be 'got' and if you dont 'get' it your not one of the cool gang. one of the things i love about steve king is the broad spectrum of people who like him.

    ps - flagg i love your spoiler tag sig

    Quote Originally Posted by valtr0n View Post

    I don't get the hatred or dislike for any book. It's like being mad at a chocolate sundae.

    .
    i think i was more frustrated, as i really wanted to like it, i had heard so much about this that i was expected a really good sit down with a mug of tea and to read by lamp light.

    i felt that it was badly written and i understand the whole concept of supposedly being written by a teenager - but a) i never spoke like that so i can not connect to it and b) it was still badly written and worded, if the whole point of this books popularity is that its a teenage rant, then surely any teenager can pick up a pen and right a few pages of how life is crap?

    Spoiler:
    and some people do get mad a chocolate sundae


    Quote Originally Posted by Roni View Post
    I think that the plot could have been interresting if it wasn't so ful of repetitions (even though, sometimes it can be a useful tool) and never ending sentences. The rythm is somewhat tiring and at the end, you do wonder if it did worth it.
    I've only read a lame french translated version, though.
    dont worry i have a feeling that nothin was lost in translation

  8. #33
    Wolf Woofer will become famous soon enough Woofer will become famous soon enough Woofer's Avatar

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    I couldn't bring myself to read it in HS and I couldn't bring myself to read it for the book club. I am a bad assistant book club person.

    *wolfblush*
    It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
    A whole lot more than riches and muscle.

    The hands of the many must join as one.
    And together we'll cross the river.

    Puscifer, "The Humbling River"


  9. #34
    Ash seeketh embers razz has a spectacular aura about razz has a spectacular aura about razz's Avatar

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    could be worse, I'm trying to head this book club, and I am having trouble plowing through...
    Beyond the scope of light, beyond the reach of Dark. . . what could possibly await us?
    And yet, we seek it, insatiably. Such is our fate. . .

  10. #35
    Wolf Woofer will become famous soon enough Woofer will become famous soon enough Woofer's Avatar

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    It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
    A whole lot more than riches and muscle.

    The hands of the many must join as one.
    And together we'll cross the river.

    Puscifer, "The Humbling River"


  11. #36
    Little Bird Ka-mai has a spectacular aura about Ka-mai has a spectacular aura about Ka-mai has a spectacular aura about Ka-mai's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by candy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by flaggwalkstheline View Post
    I think one thing about this book illustrated by our various comments is this: either you get it or you dont and if you dont get, you wont
    i just think its a shame that any book has to be 'got' and if you dont 'get' it your not one of the cool gang. one of the things i love about steve king is the broad spectrum of people who like him.

    ps - flagg i love your spoiler tag sig

    Quote Originally Posted by valtr0n View Post

    I don't get the hatred or dislike for any book. It's like being mad at a chocolate sundae.

    .
    i think i was more frustrated, as i really wanted to like it, i had heard so much about this that i was expected a really good sit down with a mug of tea and to read by lamp light.

    i felt that it was badly written and i understand the whole concept of supposedly being written by a teenager - but a) i never spoke like that so i can not connect to it and b) it was still badly written and worded, if the whole point of this books popularity is that its a teenage rant, then surely any teenager can pick up a pen and right a few pages of how life is crap?

    Spoiler:
    and some people do get mad a chocolate sundae


    Quote Originally Posted by Roni View Post
    I think that the plot could have been interresting if it wasn't so ful of repetitions (even though, sometimes it can be a useful tool) and never ending sentences. The rythm is somewhat tiring and at the end, you do wonder if it did worth it.
    I've only read a lame french translated version, though.
    dont worry i have a feeling that nothin was lost in translation
    I completely agree with this. I just hate when people get pretentious with me, saying things like "well, you just don't understand." Look, I'm well-educated, intelligent, and I read on a regular basis. If I have to have more than that to "understand" the book, I think the book has issues.

    I'm not saying this about you guys or even this book in particular, it's just a behavior that I've come across a lot that bugs the hell out of me.

    I also share candy's problem where, I wanted to like this book, a lot of people I know think very highly of this book, and I was excited about reading it. And it wasn't even "oh, they overhyped it, but it was still okay," it was "...what the hell was that? I complain all the time and I'm not considered literary genius." :sigh:

  12. #37
    Kate / Batwoman turtlex is on a distinguished road turtlex's Avatar

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    I love the various opinions that have been expressed here.

    Personally, I do think this book is a classic and I love the cadence and tempo of the writing.

    Basically, we have a confused teenager, who is absolutely terrified that he's turning into/going to become the one thing he hates most in the world ( ie - Phoney People ).

    I don't think there's any secret to the writing - it's Holden's inner voice and to me, it reads like a teenager. I love that about it. On the same hand though, I can see where some people feel it's a little, I don't know, remedial, I guess.

    When I first read this book, it was given to me by my Honors English teacher after we'd just read Salinger's 9 Stories. He had spoken about the book in class, sort of in passing, and had made the comment that "it's a book all young men should read". He then proceeded to get me my own copy and give it to me - telling me that "not only young men should read it" and that I'd enjoy it too. I loved it then - because I totally recall having that inner-dialogue myself, about the school, the people around me, my family, etc. Not the exact dialogue, of course, but an interior conversation. The book spoke to me, to that part of me.
    The Man In Black Fled Across The Desert...

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  13. #38
    BAZZINGA candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ka-mai View Post
    I completely agree with this. I just hate when people get pretentious with me, saying things like "well, you just don't understand." Look, I'm well-educated, intelligent, and I read on a regular basis. If I have to have more than that to "understand" the book, I think the book has issues.

    I'm not saying this about you guys or even this book in particular, it's just a behavior that I've come across a lot that bugs the hell out of me.

    I also share candy's problem where, I wanted to like this book, a lot of people I know think very highly of this book, and I was excited about reading it. And it wasn't even "oh, they overhyped it, but it was still okay," it was "...what the hell was that? I complain all the time and I'm not considered literary genius." :sigh:
    i was starting to feel quite alone

  14. #39
    Gunslinger Apprentice Kidd Ikarus is on a distinguished road Kidd Ikarus's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROWNING'S CHILDE

    Or maybe its just that I think Holden is a tool.
    Are sins ever forgiven?

    For those who loved this world... and knew friendly company therein. This Reunion is for you.

    http://www.zazzle.com/Kidd_Ikarus*

  15. #40
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ka-mai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by candy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by flaggwalkstheline View Post
    I think one thing about this book illustrated by our various comments is this: either you get it or you dont and if you dont get, you wont
    i just think its a shame that any book has to be 'got' and if you dont 'get' it your not one of the cool gang. one of the things i love about steve king is the broad spectrum of people who like him.

    ps - flagg i love your spoiler tag sig

    Quote Originally Posted by valtr0n View Post

    I don't get the hatred or dislike for any book. It's like being mad at a chocolate sundae.

    .
    i think i was more frustrated, as i really wanted to like it, i had heard so much about this that i was expected a really good sit down with a mug of tea and to read by lamp light.

    i felt that it was badly written and i understand the whole concept of supposedly being written by a teenager - but a) i never spoke like that so i can not connect to it and b) it was still badly written and worded, if the whole point of this books popularity is that its a teenage rant, then surely any teenager can pick up a pen and right a few pages of how life is crap?

    Spoiler:
    and some people do get mad a chocolate sundae


    Quote Originally Posted by Roni View Post
    I think that the plot could have been interresting if it wasn't so ful of repetitions (even though, sometimes it can be a useful tool) and never ending sentences. The rythm is somewhat tiring and at the end, you do wonder if it did worth it.
    I've only read a lame french translated version, though.
    dont worry i have a feeling that nothin was lost in translation
    I completely agree with this. I just hate when people get pretentious with me, saying things like "well, you just don't understand." Look, I'm well-educated, intelligent, and I read on a regular basis. If I have to have more than that to "understand" the book, I think the book has issues.

    Maybe "you don't understand" comes across as condescending or pretentious, but sometimes with all those things you just need different perspectives or you may be at a point in your life where you don't "get" something, yet at some other point you will or might.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    Iíll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  16. #41
    Jareth's Goblin Queen soylentjillian is on a distinguished road soylentjillian's Avatar

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    I have a random thought to add. It frustrates me a lot... there is an anime, Ghost in the Shell, and there is a villain of sorts called the Laughing Man. His slogan is "I thought what I would do was, I'd pretend like I was one of those deaf mutes." That's what Holden says to himself on the bus, I believe somewhere around the time he was reminiscing about an ex's cone-shaped bra, although I could be wrong. It annoys me to see people arguing that this quote is specifically from an anime and saying something like, "oh, well, books are dumb and although this sentence is a homage to an amazing book I'm going to pretend like it's something clever that I can pass in notes to my best friends so they think I'm deep!"

    Sorry.

    I love this book because I love the sort of stream of consciousness writing that is evident. Of course, it's not truly that because it's not disjointed thoughts and emotions, such as is displayed in T.S. Eliot's The Wastelands or something. It's a narrative but it still follows that stream of consciousness, the inner monologue. It is my favorite sort of thing to read because of the reality of it... it's just one gorgeous rambling of fleeting thoughts and ideas that have no bearing on the workings of the universe...

    From T.S. Eliot's The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock (http://www.bartleby.com/198/1.html)

    And indeed there will be time
    To wonder, “Do I dare?” and, “Do I dare?”
    Time to turn back and descend the stair,
    With a bald spot in the middle of my hair—
    [They will say: “How his hair is growing thin!”]
    My morning coat, my collar mounting firmly to the chin,
    My necktie rich and modest, but asserted by a simple pin—
    [They will say: “But how his arms and legs are thin!”]
    Do I dare
    Disturb the universe?
    In a minute there is time
    For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.

    Basically, the reason I think of this is because when you look at the thoughts and decisions of another person, they're not important. Disturbing the universe and climbing stairs (later in the poem he wonders if he dares eat a peach, and places it on the same level of disturbing the universe) are very different issues, yet they have the same weight. Therefore, humanity's protests against the flow of the world and their wonderings are futile and pointless to everyone but themselves. That, to me, is the point of Catcher in the Rye.
    Quote Originally Posted by Melike View Post
    Then, I call you Goblin Queen.

  17. #42
    BAZZINGA candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy's Avatar

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    saw this on the news web this morning
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...re/8107222.stm

    thought some of you guys may be interested

  18. #43
    Weedeater BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE's Avatar

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    I am not sure to what extent an author has legal rights to their characters. It seems if this lawsuit is legitimate, then I think Mel Brooks owes George Lucas some money for Spaceballs. If the character in this new book is not named Holden Caufield, I'm not sure that there is a case. I am not sure there is a legitimate case even if the name is the same. I mean, if I want to write a story and name my lead character Paul Sheldon, I am not sure SK could do anything about it.
    Sloth Love Chunk

  19. #44
    BAZZINGA candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy's Avatar

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    i'm not too sure tbh
    look at the whole harry potter jk rowling court case, when that chappy tried to release an dictionary or something or other. I may be mistaken but i think she won.

    apparantley the character is called mr c,
    Spoiler:
    oh my god, salinger could sue me too!!!
    but the story is told from his point of view much like catcher in the rye, and he goes to new york and he finishes near the carasel and he rants a lot. reading between the lines, its this plotline as well as the character that salinger is having the problem with. which i can understand, if your going to do a rip off of a character at least try and have an original plot line

  20. #45
    Weedeater BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE's Avatar

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    True...and I'm certainly not defending this hack. I just wonder how the courts will decide.
    Sloth Love Chunk

  21. #46
    Going Slap Happy Mattrick is a splendid one to behold Mattrick is a splendid one to behold Mattrick is a splendid one to behold Mattrick is a splendid one to behold Mattrick is a splendid one to behold Mattrick is a splendid one to behold Mattrick is a splendid one to behold Mattrick's Avatar

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    Since I'm re-reading it, I'll re-answer these questions when I am done if my answers vary.

    1. How did you feel about the writing style of the book?

    It's wonderful. If you were to read it aloud it would flow off the tongue effortlessly, I know it flows in my mind. Though it consists of a lot of prattling, the prattling gives is what gives the narrative it's character and thus gives Holden his character. It's quite humourous the way Holden describes not only other people but how he feels about other people, because so much of his irritation is held within, we can only imagine how vitriolic a character he would be if he were less close-mouthed.

    2. For what reason is this book so "hyped"?

    I'm not really sure about any hype the book has. I just think it's a quintessential read for anyone, whether they will love it or hate it.

    3. Why do you think this book has become a modern classic?

    It's a sign of the times. Catcher In The Rye is such a sign of it's time, yet it is still socially relevant in modern times.


    4. If you were to perform a psychoanalysis of Holden, what would your diagnosis be?

    Holden Caulfield is endlessly empathetic. This empathy makes him constantly downtrodden. Though he will express great irritation and agitation at other people and point out all the phony, terrible or ugly things about theme, he always expressed pity for them. He has a rare gift of understand humanity, for understand why people are the way they are. Ackley kid annoys the hell out of him, he describes him as a lonely, envious, spiteful, ugly and annoying yet at the end of this chapter he says he truly feels sorry for him.

    He's spent most of his life experiencing little strife - he's not stupid, he's not ugly, he's not overweight, he's not poor but he's helplessly empty. He finds no fulfillment in wealth or advantage. He does not try at school, he just simply doesn't care. He doesn't like the people, he doesn't like the teachers and I do not feel the work challengers or inspires him. Holden Caulfield is Dysthymic, or perhaps since I'm Dysthymic I merely see that in his character, I can relate to his perspective on the world because in a lot of ways, I believe he is right or 'on to something' at the very least.

    Holden is endlessly frustrated, as many youths are, especially young men. Young men are defined by what they do and Holden doesn't do anything. He is lacking in ambition but he's overflowing with passion. He thinks and speaks with fervency, he engages people with zeal but never gets the same response back. This leaves him feeling alienated from the people around him.


    5. What words of wisdom, if any, did you think that Holden provided?

    See question 7.

    6. How do you think the title relates to Holden as a character?

    It shows his emapthy. He idolized youth because he feels life ends in adolescence, when the ways of society overtake the whimsical innocence and honesty of life. He wants to by someone that catches children, who are running through the rye, not sure what is on the other side - the other side is empty, and only leads to death - and that the real beauty of life lies in the rye, when you don't look in front of you, and you can't see around you...he wishes he could protect what makes youth so special, keep it alive so that they never lose it, as he did.

    7. Why is Holden so afraid of phony people?

    I don't like the phrasing of this, he's not afraid of phony people at all...he pities them, in fact, he's so saddened by them it makes him miserable. He sees his future in these people and that as life goes on, he will only feel increased separation from the people. Already at his young age he finds little in common with people. If he fears phony people in any sense, it's that he fears becoming one of them because that would to be empty, to be vapid.

    Holden's journey in the novel is he is trying to find something real. He tries to be grown up; he goes to bars, he talks to women - not girls but women. He tries on being an adult and it makes him miserable, so he drinks. All he wants is to have a real conversation with someone. He goes all over New York and is unable to find one. He's so frusterated and angry that this is what life has to offer.

    However, in the final chapter when Holden is with his little sister, he (I believe from my remembrance) has an epiphany - that he just had a real conversation, and it fills him with tremendous joy. Through all his schools, all his traversing of New York City and trying on the shoes he's wear in life he didn't have a real conversation until he went home. The only people really capable of real conversations are children, because their world is so large and full of possibility and hope - that it is through youth and the future that those that age draw hope and promise from, and if we can remember that, harness that, it can be possible to draw purpose from life...even if the only purpose of life is to ensure life and happiness for all the children who are yet to come.


    I think the book is generally misunderstood, because Holden is misunderstood, but he's supposed to be misunderstood, because he is. In many ways I am a lot like Holden Caulfield, sometimes eerily. Hell, I even grew up with an Ackley Kid so I can perfectly both understand his irritation with Ackley and his pity for him. I suppose someone's ability to relate to Holden all depends on their ability to relate, empathize, pity and see the humanity that lies in their fellow human beings. As much as Holden finds everyone a phony, he never takes away their right for existing and tries his best to respect them, even if they do annoy the hell out of him. The book is profound because it forces is you look past his annoying, prattling, angsty, venting and see the humanity in Holden. Inside all of his complaining is a pure heart and he does a many good deeds and favours for people. Personally, I wish there were more Holden Caulfields in the world, it might be a more enjoyable place.
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    Interesting thread... and some very good points!

    I thoroughly enjoyed this book when I read it "too soon" on my own, but found it to be much less impressive when it was required reading in school. I think the major flaw of the book is that so much pressure is placed on it as a literary work... I feel a lot of people (at least in the US) are introduced to it as a means of learning about literature, which takes away from the enjoyment of the story itself. The book isn't trying to be anything monumental, but since it is often held to that higher standard it seems to fall short. The same goes for other "great" works that often over analyzed or spoon fed to young adults. It forces us to either overlook the true value of the story or too harshly judge the work.

    For example, any book can be crumby... but a book that is presented as a model of literature seems more crumby even if it is only a little crumby, because we don't expect it to be crumby at all.

  23. #48
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    http://grammarist.com/spelling/crumby-crummy/ Huh.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    The only people really capable of real conversations are children, because their world is so large and full of possibility and hope - that it is through youth and the future that those that age draw hope and promise from, and if we can remember that, harness that, it can be possible to draw purpose from life...even if the only purpose of life is to ensure life and happiness for all the children who are yet to come.
    Nice. Really makes you think.

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    Interesting to read the media reports this week of various unpublished Salinger stories including follow ups on Holden Caulfield's life. Some to be published in the next couple of years. There were rumors that Salinger continued to write up until his final days. And conflicting accounts about what he wanted done with those works. Some reported he wanted them destroyed. Now they are saying that he wanted them published at specific timeframes after his death. Regardless, if it is true that there are more Caulfield stories it's going to be quite a literary event. Given the reputation of the original book, it's going to be very difficult to satisy those fans. Which may have been a factor in his decision to stop publishing.

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    wow, I didn't even know. Thank you!

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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