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Thread: Yankees - The Thread in Perpetuity

  1. #51
    Fundraiser Emeritus Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    That bullpen is EXTREMELY sketchy. More evidence that Chamberlain should be the set-up man not a starter. This doesn't look like a team built to win important games. You can't just rely on hitting more home runs than your opponent in October. Without pitching, this team will do nothing.

    I agree RoG. Joba was a perfect set-up for Mo and if it ain't broke don't fix it. But it is what it is now. If the current guys (although I do generally feel pretty good about Bruney, Coke & Ramirez the odd Tattooing aside) can't work out the kinks over the next 20-25 games we can always feel confident that Cashman will go get a Stanton or a Nelson or both by the break. To be honest I haven't felt good about the 7th or 8th since them in '98 with the exception of Joba.

    But hey!! we're not even 20 games in dude. Let's keep a more optimistic attitude!!! lol lol

    at least for the time being anyway! lol lol
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    But hey!! we're not even 20 games in dude. Let's keep a more optimistic attitude!!! lol lol
    How much longer should I be optimistic? This series against Cleveland was a real eye-opener. The Yanks will be lucky to take 4th in the AL East this year. Tampa is at least as good as last year. Boston is at least as good as last year. Baltimore is much better than last year. This could be a LONG season.

  3. #53
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    I never take too much stock at the beginning of a season. The Marlins are good, but they aren't that good. The O's have a nice lineup and they should get even better when they call up Minor League player of the year Matt Weiters, but I don't think they have the starting pitching in the long run to come in third place.

    I would be shocked if the Yanks came in 4th place when the smoke clears. Besides the games Wang pitched, they've played pretty well. There might be some holes in the pen (although it might look worse because they have been overextended because of Wang) but I think they will be okay.

    Joba pitched very well as a starter last year and I don't see any reason why he can't be a great starter. Go back and look at his games last year. He pitched 6 or 7 innings and barely walked anybody.

    I also think they might have help on the way. Mark Melancon has gotten off to a great start in AAA. Hitters are 1 for 24 off of him thus far. I don't see any reason why he can't do what Joba did.

    People got spoiled by Joba in the pen a few years back, when the reality is any team could take their pest prospect and put him in the pen and he will thrive (at least in the short term) good stuff plus the fact that noboy has ever faced him is a recipe for success.

    Another example of this is David Price.
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  4. #54
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    You are right SS. I'm not writing off anybody in April, though I will say this about the Marlins. As much as I think they are not as good as they appear, I said the same thing last year in May about the Rays and I wound up eating those words. That said, of the Marlins' 11 wins, 6 of them have come against the Nationals who are 1-10 so it's not exactly a barometer by which to judge the Marlins quite yet. I don't think they are as good as the Mets, Philly or Atlanta though.

    As for Joba, I'm still not impressed with him as a starter. Last year had some ups and some downs but what stood out to me the most was that the arm was not yet ready to be a starting pitcher. He injured the arm ostensibly because of the workload and he didn't go six or seven as often as I would like to see an ace starter go six or seven. Of course, it is a year later and the arm is stretched out more and perhaps he has the endurance to give us more quality innings, but (a) I will have to see it to believe it, and (b) they have to address the stopper role at some point. Rivera was the dominant starter of his era for sure, but how much more does he have? Joba seemed the natural heir apparent.

    I don't know if he complained his way into a starting job or if Hank wanted him to be a starter but I'd have rather seen him be a team player and go where they needed him the most. Compare it to J.J. Putz. Aside from Francisco Rodriguez the guy was the most sought-after stopper in free agency. Rather than go to any one of the dozens of teams courting him where he could be a big name star with a lot of saves and all the glory, he went to the Mets to be the set-up man for K-Rod. That was the ultimate team-first move. The guy just wants to be on a winning team and will take whatever role he is given to make it happen. As a Mets fan, the guy instantly won my admiration with his attitude. I'd have liked to have seen the same from Joba. Still, it is what it is. If he performs well as a starter then I will be very happy with him.

    There are a lot more problems in that bullpen that need to be addressed soon. April or not, they need to not dig too deep a hole for themselves to climb out of.

  5. #55
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    This weekend showed me everything I needed to know.

    Optimists can keep their optimism if it serves them and those who want to say it's only April can keep that up for another four days if that makes them happy. As far as I'm concerned, this team needs serious help or they won't contend for anything.

    I know Rodriguez will be back by June and the other bats may wake up as well. It is meaningless to me. They simply do not have the pitching at any level of the bullpen, to compete should they, by some miracle, make the playoffs. Out-homering the competition will become useless when September and October roll around. That is never going to be an effective playoff strategy. Playoff games are won or lost through pitching and the Yankees have none. Even Rivera faltered, which only strengthens my view that the correct place for Joba Chamberlain is in the bullpen. Maybe it's not what Joba wants but it's what the team needs.

    I also couldn't be more over Andy Pettitte. That steal of home by Ellsbury was 99% Pettitte's fault because (a) he has the single slowest wind up and delivery in the history of pitching, and (b) he obviously plays with his head up his ass and doesn't pay a lick of attention to the base runners. Last night and today it was reported widely in the NY papers that prior to that at-bat, Posada warned Pettitte that Ellsbury had potential to do something like that. Pettitte never even looked twice. However, for a catcher who allegedly said that, Posada didn't exactly look like he was all that aware of Ellsbury's steal until Ellsbury was right on top of him. Pettitte and Posada both looked like clowns. I expect better from Posada. Regardless of Posada's offensive power, there is still a Molina on the roster. Nobody with that last name is going to allow someone to steal home while he's behind the plate.

    As for Pettite, I never wanted the guy back after the steroid thing. I think his "excuse" for getting caught was an insult to my intelligence. Was he serious? He wasn't trying to get an advantage, he was just trying to recover from an injury? Really? Using HGH to recover from an injury faster than others IS getting an advantage. He's a cheater and a terrible liar and I'd never have taken him back.

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  7. #57
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    Default New A-Rod Allegations

    By now most of you have probably heard or read of the newest allegations against Alex Rodriguez. I am not all that concerned about the new steroid claims. It was pretty clear that he was less than honest about how long he'd been using them so I knew more accusations would be forthcoming.

    However, what bothers me MUCH more than that is the allegation that when with the Rangers, he was involved in "pitch tipping" with friends on opposing teams. In short, in the later innings of games that were pretty much decided already, A-Rod would give signals to friends at bat on opposing teams letting them know what pitch was coming in exchange for them doing the same for him.

    If, and I say if because nothing has been proven, but if this turns out to be true, then (a) I do not want him back on the Yankees, ever, and (b) I want him banned from baseball for life. What Rodriguez and his friends allegedly did is despicable. I will never again believe that his stats are real. Between the steroids and now this, his stats are padded to an unknown extent. If I were a pitcher that was on his team and I found out he did this to me, I'd be out for blood.

    To me, this is significantly more serious than what Pete Rose did. Rose bet on baseball but there has never been a shred of evidence that he ever did anything to affect the outcome of a single game to cover a bet.

    Here is some info from SI on the allegation:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...a/?eref=sircrc

    Ok, we now return you to the Yankees' season, already in progress.

  8. #58
    Fundraiser Emeritus Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958 has a reputation beyond repute Merlin1958's Avatar

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    The additional steriod allegations bother me but not the pitch tipping so much. "legal" cheating has always seemed to be a part of the game we enjoy but don't talk about to much. Bobby Thompson's shot has long been rumored to be sign stealing (pitch tipping), Gaylord Perry et al. and Billy Martin (Pine tar incident for one). generally we shrug it off as "gamesmaship". Although, if it is in fact that they did for each other to fatten stats that is pretty cheesy and low.

    As far as the steriods thing, you know its getting a little old. They cheated, done. lets move on. And that is not because its A-Rod and/or the Yankees. As a fan your just gonna have to reconcile with the period ending with testing and move on. Don't forget there are what? another 101 players who haven't been outed yet? Is this gonna be the sports media's source of retirement funds? every six months from now on a sportswriter will out a player, get a book deal and off we go? Personally, I'm just numb to it now. They cheated for awhile, we all got robbed and now we can move forward with enjoying the game until the next drugs, cheaters or cyborg enhancement scandle comes along. Cause as long as there is competition and money at stake, people will look for an edge. When that edge benefits ownership, they will become complicit.

    To me, I say ENOUGH. Move on!!!!! I just don't want to hear it anymore.




    No offense to anyone here just had a bellyful of the whole mess.
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  9. #59
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    Those are good examples you raise and I agree, all can be legitimately defined as forms of "cheating."

    However, I think one key difference between Perry's use of the spitter or George Brett's use of too much pine tar on his bat and what A-Rod is alleged to have done is that Perry and Brett's actions were ultimately for the benefit of their own teams. Perry wasn't trying to pad his stats, he was trying to get guys out to help his team win. Brett wasn't trying to hit more home runs to pad his stats, he was trying to help the Royals win games. A-Rod and his pals were acting solely for their own benefit as the story states that they were only doing this in games that were already decided.

    There's also the fact that these actions have a detrimental impact on the stats of the pitchers on his own team which may very well cost them money if they have incentive-based contracts.

    As for sign-stealing, I think that is much different than pitch-tipping. Sign stealing is one team trying to figure out what the other team is going to do. It has it's ethical challenges for sure, but to me it's not equivalent to a member of one team intentionally signaling a pitch to a member of another team. Pitch-tipping also seems to me to be dangerously akin to point-shaving in basketball, something which gives an advantage to gamblers. There's no room for that in sports and given the treatment MLB gave to Pete Rose, I think they should come down harshly on anyone who can be proven to have participated in this scheme.

  10. #60
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    Funny, when I referenced Brett I was actually referring to the fact that Martin knew well in advance that the amount of Pine Tar on Brett's bat exceeded the rules. He just waited until it was to his benefit to invoke the rule. If Brett had struck out it would never have happened.

    But I see your point and I agreed with you. Doing it to pad your stats is pretty low.

    Sign Stealing and Pitch tipping seem to me to me in the same ballpark. I suppose you can make an argument that Sign Stealing means stealing the base coaches managers signs to the hitters/runners but, the catcher also gives signs to determine pitches to the pitcher. I've heard the term "Pitch-Tipping" used to describe a pitcher who has a "tell" as well. (dropping a shoulder when the fastball is coming) seemed to me to be a fairly fine line and dependant on the observer.

    I guess the Belichick might prove to be a decent example. Its one thing to pick up on the other teams tendencies and signs from across the field and another to hide a camera there for that purpose. Then again how does Thompson's boys allegedly hiding in the scoreboard fir in? lol lol

    I suppose it all boils down to that axiom "Yeah, but you got caught!!"

    lol lol
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    Funny, when I referenced Brett I was actually referring to the fact that Martin knew well in advance that the amount of Pine Tar on Brett's bat exceeded the rules. He just waited until it was to his benefit to invoke the rule. If Brett had struck out it would never have happened.
    I agree, but that to me is legitimate gamesmanship. The same thing happens every now and again in hockey when a coach notices an opposing player has a stick with too much of a curve in it but doesn't bring it up to the officials unless that player scores. I think that's fair. What you have is a coach noticing the opposing player is trying to cheat but if the cheating doesn't help them win they let it go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    I've heard the term "Pitch-Tipping" used to describe a pitcher who has a "tell" as well. (dropping a shoulder when the fastball is coming) seemed to me to be a fairly fine line and dependant on the observer.
    The difference as I see it is that a "pitcher's tell" is something an observant opposing coach or player notices and uses to his own advantage whereas pitch-tipping is an intentional signal to the opposition. To extrapolate to football, it's like being able to read an offensive line-up and know a running play is coming as opposed to an offensive linemen telling a defensive tackle "Hey, we're running it to the right on this one."

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    I guess the Belichick might prove to be a decent example. Its one thing to pick up on the other teams tendencies and signs from across the field and another to hide a camera there for that purpose.
    It's a great example. I think what Bellichick did crossed the line between great observant scouting and outright cheating. Frankly, I was shocked the penalty was so light. It seemed like the NFL just wanted it to go away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    Then again how does Thompson's boys allegedly hiding in the scoreboard fir in?
    I'd say that's the baseball equivalent of what Bellichick did, only in real time not via videotape. It's cheating.

  12. #62
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    Well Guys, almost a month since the last post and it seems to be a different story!!! ARod has made a big difference to the team and Tex but, so has Melky who is really stepping up!!! Finally Girardi is getting with the program!! He's finally recognized that Cano has taken a whole new approach to hitting this year (He actually walks!) and moved him up to protect Arod. Matsui will come around (He's not "Loading up" again and problem of his in the past as well) and hopefully Jorge will get back soon.

    I really like the energy the C&C boys bring to the team (Cano & Cabrera). They seem so loose and appear to have that "swagger" again. Now if the bullpen would just figure out what it is we'd be in business!!
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  13. #63
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    It's good that they're winning. Still, snatching victory from the jaws of defeat on a night in and night out basis is not going to cut it come the fall. They need to be winning before the ninth if they are going to win playoff games.

  14. #64
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    Default Burnett Suspended 6 Games

    I'm kind of torn about this one.

    I know Burnett was sending a message to the Rangers about throwing at Teixiera, and I know that bean ball goes back a long way, but it's been pretty well established that you don't throw at a guy's head.

    If Burnett plunked the guy in the ribs or threw it behind him I'd be completely supportive, but I can understand the suspension for throwing near someone's head. That crosses the line to where someone could be seriously injured.

    ----------
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4230518

    Burnett appealing 6-game suspension

    Yankees pitcher A.J. Burnett has been suspended six games for throwing a pitch over the head of the Rangers' Nelson Cruz in Tuesday night's game. Burnett has filed an appeal of the penalty, however, and will be allowed to pitch until the appeals process is complete.

    Rangers pitcher Vicente Padilla, who hit Yankees slugger Mark Teixeira with two pitches Tuesday, was fined an undisclosed amount.

    Teixeira was hit below the right shoulder by Padilla in the second inning. Then he was hit on the buttocks in the fourth.

    Burnett threw a pitch over the head of Cruz in the fifth that sent the cleanup hitter sprawling, prompting plate umpire Doug Eddings to warn both dugouts. Cruz had put the Rangers ahead 3-2 with a three-run homer in the third.

    "I got to pitch in," Burnett said. "Warnings are warnings, man. It doesn't bother me."

    But Teixeira hinted there was more to it.

    "I think there was a little message sent," he said.

    Rangers manager Ron Washington defended Padilla, who was activated before the game and allowed seven runs, seven hits and four walks in 3 2/3 innings.

    "I guess he was trying to get inside on him, keep him from diving over the plate," Washington said.

  15. #65
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    Oh the difference a couple of months can make.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turtlex View Post
    : sweep :



    Oh the difference a couple of months can make.

    exactly

    i'll take the august sweep over the april sweep any time.

    the yankees really got themselves a bit of breathing room now, 6.5 ahead of boston and 8 ahead of the rays. consistency down the stretch here will be the key to walking away with the division and heading into the playoffs on the right track.

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    Well I'm on cloud 9 right now myself! :-)
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    Well... I'd love to say that the Yanks played amazing... but honestly, mostly, the Red Sox just played horribly.

    This feels so familiar. I sooooo wish it didn't.

    ( yeah, since I came in and did a sweep dance when the Red Sox pulled it off earlier, I figued I owed it to you all to bow my head and come in and do the dance for you!! )
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    oh i'd be sure to give some credit to the yankees, especially the pitching staff which performed solidly and kept the red sox off the scoreboard for the vast majority of the series. pitching wins championships and the yankees are getting strong pitching performances at the right time.

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    Hey. I'm doing the best I can here.

    I'm a die-hard Red Sox fan, afterall.
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    well, i'll take seeing boston go 31 innings without a run whether it's due to yankee pitching or boston's inability to put a bat on the ball or both. any way you slice it, it works out well for the yankees.

    all i know is, this appears to be another season in which cc sabathia gets better and better as the season rolls along. that performance on saturday was nothing short of extraordinary. the guy was worth every penny if this is how he's going to pitch down the stretch.

  22. #72
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    That went well. What a great weekend.

    It's not over yet though. Still a lot of season left. I still think the Yankees need to get a fifth starter for the stretch run.
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    Boston Massacre!!!!!!!!!!!!



    31 scoreless innings!!!!!!

    Of course the Yanks didn't play well the Sox played bad!!!! Still its 4 in the win column for the:

    New York Yankees!!!!!






    Ok now that that's outta my system. Any comments from the public re" Ortiz/Ramirez Steriods??? personally I'm staring to get a little sick of it from the media. Just reveal the list and lets ALL move on!!! C'mon some of you out there gotta be getting toward the same feeling?

    Obviously, anyone who looked like he was doing it, WAS!!! lol lol

    All hail Pujols the first of the "Clean" Sluggers!!!!!! At least until he's not. lol

    And Jeter is still the "class" and "face" of the game!!!
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  24. #74
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    Another Walk-off Win courtesy of Robbie Cano!!!

    Take the Pie in the eye Robbie!!!

    2 of 3 from Toronto!!
    The Evil Empire!!


    "Dyin' ain't much of a livin' boy" - Josey Wales

    My collection thread:
    http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/...ion-Merlin1958

  25. #75
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    10,971

    Default

    i'll restate what i said much earlier in the season

    i will take all the walk off wins now happily, but come playoff time, if they are still relying on the last minute heroics to win games, they will have problems.

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