Random Comments/Stream of Consciousness Thread

[Sir_Boomme]

Listen to his statements about anyone who isn't white. He's also sexist, xenophobic and ignorant. "Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Today will be marked as the beginning of the decline and fall of the United States as a constitutional democracy and as a respected member of the world community. And from what I can tell, Hillary is leading in the popular vote. OK, it may only be a 100,000, but it is the lead. 59,390,851 to 59,215,097. This happened with Gore also. Maybe it is time to rethink this electoral college shit where a few states dictate to the rest of us and go with the popular vote. Anyway, I'll be buying a Lotto ticket today - I wouldn't mind living in the great white north.

And France - beware Marie Le Pen.

Can someone please remind me how exactly works the voting system in the USA?
Two candidates, citizens vote for the "senators" or something like this, one of the two sides.
The amount of senators are related to the amount of people in the related states.
The most amount of senators from one side, will define the president.

Something like this, right?
But then, how come someone that do not have the most votes becomes presidents? It's just sound... I guess that somehow he got more "senators" or something from his side, but that sounds weird to me.

there are a total of 538 electoral voters...
that total represents one for each or he 435 House of Representative seats...
1 for each of the 100 senators...
and 3 for the District of Columbia which is not a state thus does not have senators or Representatives of it's own. The reasoning on that is that the federal seat of government does not reside in any one state.

The house of representatives members from each state are allotted according to that state's population, the more people in the state, the more representatives they have. it's allotment is adjusted accordingly after each census (every 10 years) - states lose and gain as their populations decrease and increase percentage-wise to the overall population of the United States.

So the electoral voters representing the house of representatives from each state also increase and decrease percentage-wise according to that state's population percentages.

However, every state has 2 senators regardless of the population in that state - that never changes... so every state has 2 electoral votes that reflect that... regardless of the population densities. that is fixed.

So, in a state that has only 100,000 people - each senate electoral vote represents 50,000 voters
A state that has 10,000,000 residents- each senate electoral vote represents 500,000 voters
Therefore in smaller population states, each individual resident's vote actually counts more.

But then... since the overall electoral votes are fixed... even the house of representative associated electoral votes are weighted. Because of the huge populations verses the small number of electoral voters... there is no way that the allotments can be divided equally... you can't have 23.7 voters for a state... because there's .7 of a person doesn't exist... so due to rounding, large state's populations lose out there too.

The actual electoral voters that are associated with these, are usually decided on at each parties' state convention, and usually hold some elected position for that party.

Hope that helped.

[Sir_Boomme]

to add even more to that pie... voter turnout for each state skews how much your actual individual vote counts.
since the electoral votes are set according to the states' population, and not according to how many people actually vote... a state that has a very small turnout- each of those resident's vote increases in value percentage-wise over a state that a very very large turnout.

[Sir_Boomme]

so... if anyone has issues with it... you need to lobby to get it change for FUTURE elections... or move to Alaska and hope nobody else votes but you... then you'll be one badass voter- regardless of party.

[Randall Flagg]

so... if anyone has issues with it... you need to lobby to get it change for FUTURE elections... or move to Alaska and hope nobody else votes but you... then you'll be one badass voter- regardless of party.

One can't "change it".
It would take an amendment to the Constitution. Given the current political climate, no amendment would even be presented, let alone pass.
The last amendment attempt was the ERA. That simply said that women were equal to men. The House and the Senate passed it, but set a 10 year time limit for the required number of states to pass it.
Sadly, the states (some), dragged their feet and the amendment expired.
Pretty sad when the USA couldn't even declare constitutionally that women were equal to men.

[Sir_Boomme]

that's what I meant... you have to lobby your congress to try to get it changed... by constitutional amendment... didn't say it would be easy.... or even feasible... but that's the only path you have because it's the law of the land...
there's no "do-overs" in presidential elections like some people seem to think there is.

[Lurker]

You could get around it. The states rules on it decide who gets the electors. No requirement to give their electoral votes to winner of the state.
But with most of the states controlled by the fas...I mean Republicans... can't get around it that way either...yet.

[Tommy]

There's no way the Republicans will ever give up the electoral college. It won them this election (funny because Trump himself said the EC was a "disaster for a democracy" in 2012) and also the 2000 election. What else can be said about a system that denies the person with the most votes the presidency?

If anything, in my life, I have seen how the EC prevents people from voting. My state is a red state and has been since before I was born. My mother has not voted since I've been alive because she knows her vote will not count. The state is red so why bother? That's what the EC does for voting.

[herbertwest]

Listen to his statements about anyone who isn't white. He's also sexist, xenophobic and ignorant. "Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Today will be marked as the beginning of the decline and fall of the United States as a constitutional democracy and as a respected member of the world community. And from what I can tell, Hillary is leading in the popular vote. OK, it may only be a 100,000, but it is the lead. 59,390,851 to 59,215,097. This happened with Gore also. Maybe it is time to rethink this electoral college shit where a few states dictate to the rest of us and go with the popular vote. Anyway, I'll be buying a Lotto ticket today - I wouldn't mind living in the great white north.

And France - beware Marie Le Pen.

Can someone please remind me how exactly works the voting system in the USA?
Two candidates, citizens vote for the "senators" or something like this, one of the two sides.
The amount of senators are related to the amount of people in the related states.
The most amount of senators from one side, will define the president.

Something like this, right?
But then, how come someone that do not have the most votes becomes presidents? It's just sound... I guess that somehow he got more "senators" or something from his side, but that sounds weird to me.

there are a total of 538 electoral voters...
that total represents one for each or he 435 House of Representative seats...
1 for each of the 100 senators...
and 3 for the District of Columbia which is not a state thus does not have senators or Representatives of it's own. The reasoning on that is that the federal seat of government does not reside in any one state.

The house of representatives members from each state are allotted according to that state's population, the more people in the state, the more representatives they have. it's allotment is adjusted accordingly after each census (every 10 years) - states lose and gain as their populations decrease and increase percentage-wise to the overall population of the United States.

So the electoral voters representing the house of representatives from each state also increase and decrease percentage-wise according to that state's population percentages.

However, every state has 2 senators regardless of the population in that state - that never changes... so every state has 2 electoral votes that reflect that... regardless of the population densities. that is fixed.

So, in a state that has only 100,000 people - each senate electoral vote represents 50,000 voters
A state that has 10,000,000 residents- each senate electoral vote represents 500,000 voters
Therefore in smaller population states, each individual resident's vote actually counts more.

But then... since the overall electoral votes are fixed... even the house of representative associated electoral votes are weighted. Because of the huge populations verses the small number of electoral voters... there is no way that the allotments can be divided equally... you can't have 23.7 voters for a state... because there's .7 of a person doesn't exist... so due to rounding, large state's populations lose out there too.

The actual electoral voters that are associated with these, are usually decided on at each parties' state convention, and usually hold some elected position for that party.

Hope that helped.

Kind of complicated to understand, but it does help a bit. Thanks for the explainations.

[carlosdetweiller]

There's no way the Republicans will ever give up the electoral college. It won them this election (funny because Trump himself said the EC was a "disaster for a democracy" in 2012) and also the 2000 election. What else can be said about a system that denies the person with the most votes the presidency?

If anything, in my life, I have seen how the EC prevents people from voting. My state is a red state and has been since before I was born. My mother has not voted since I've been alive because she knows her vote will not count. The state is red so why bother? That's what the EC does for voting.

A lot of people feel that way. I have relatives who didn't vote because Texas is "red." I'm sure a lot of Republicans don't bother to vote in California because it is "blue." But there are plenty of other reasons to vote in those areas. There were lots of state and county positions up for grabs. Specifically, here in Amarillo there were nine separate bond proposals for city improvements. To not vote because one doesn't think one's vote for president will be ineffectual is saying you don't give a hoot about the local politics and issues too.

[Br!an]

You could get around it. The states rules on it decide who gets the electors. No requirement to give their electoral votes to winner of the state.
But with most of the states controlled by the fas...I mean Republicans... can't get around it that way either...yet.

You are correct. There is already a movement to change the state electoral laws to award the electors to the candidate that wins the national popular vote. When enough states agree with that scenario the rule will kick in.


"Now, under the National Popular Vote proposal, which is now law in 11 states, those states, when we have enough states that have a majority of the electors—that is, 270—those laws go into effect. And they will award all of those electors to the candidate who gets the most popular votes in all 50 states. And that’s what would guarantee the White House to the candidate who gets the most popular votes in all 50 states. Now, this legislation is already law in 11 states, having 165 electoral votes. It needs states with 105 more electoral votes to become law in time for the 2020 election."


http://www.democracynow.org/2016/11/..._for_electoral

[Br!an]

[mae]

Kind of complicated to understand, but it does help a bit. Thanks for the explainations.

Try these:

[Br!an]

Kind of complicated to understand, but it does help a bit. Thanks for the explainations.

It is quite complicated.

Some countries have easy election laws that are the same throughout the country. The US has thousands of laws at the local, county, state and national levels.

Many of those laws grant power to the two main political parties thereby maintaining the two-party system. Each party then has its own electoral rules which determine the way the election actually operates, such as choosing the electors for the Electoral College.

It is an absurd system.

[Sir_Boomme]

There's no way the Republicans will ever give up the electoral college. It won them this election (funny because Trump himself said the EC was a "disaster for a democracy" in 2012) and also the 2000 election. What else can be said about a system that denies the person with the most votes the presidency?

If anything, in my life, I have seen how the EC prevents people from voting. My state is a red state and has been since before I was born. My mother has not voted since I've been alive because she knows her vote will not count. The state is red so why bother? That's what the EC does for voting.

A lot of people feel that way. I have relatives who didn't vote because Texas is "red." I'm sure a lot of Republicans don't bother to vote in California because it is "blue." But there are plenty of other reasons to vote in those areas. There were lots of state and county positions up for grabs. Specifically, here in Amarillo there were nine separate bond proposals for city improvements. To not vote because one doesn't think one's vote for president will be ineffectual is saying you don't give a hoot about the local politics and issues too.

that's extremely true... a republican in California knows it's a waste of time to go to the polls if all that concerns you is the presidential race... which for some reason seems to be the case with the vast majority of people. Look at the md-term elections in Travis county (Austin, Texas). This county is 78% liberal...seriously. Every city and county and state representative from this county for the past 50 years is democrat...when I say every... I mean every- if they had a race for dog catcher, it be a democrat. The fact that the ballots have zero republicans running for any local positions demonstrates how futile it is for the Republican voter here. As such... many many don't go to vote mid-terms, turn out is in the low teens. Even the democrats don't go vote because they know it's a done deal.
That scenario translates to state's level for states that are extremely weighted to one party or another.


I as a libertarian leaning republican, I totally support a system eliminating the electoral college and letting the popular vote decide for future elections... BUT... if and only if valid voter ID is required in all states - to help eliminate any chance of voter fraud due to that. I know voter fraud can happen in other ways.... but this is one step that could actually be taken that could help reduce it.
When someone says Republicans won't change the system for the better... I think they better look at how the Democrats are inflexible also...
Tit-for-Tat

[herbertwest]

Almost 5 million people voted for this petition : "Electoral College: Make Hillary Clinton President on December 19. "
>>> https://www.change.org/p/electoral-c...ter_responsive

[Theli]

^That ain't gonna happen.

[Br!an]

Almost 5 million people voted for this petition : "Electoral College: Make Hillary Clinton President on December 19. "
>>> https://www.change.org/p/electoral-c...ter_responsive

^That ain't gonna happen.

True. That's just another form of protest.

The electors who will be representing the various states where Trump won will be loyal Republicans, and they will vote as such.

[herbertwest]

Almost 5 million people voted for this petition : "Electoral College: Make Hillary Clinton President on December 19. "
>>> https://www.change.org/p/electoral-c...ter_responsive

^That ain't gonna happen.

True. That's just another form of protest.

The electors who will be representing the various states where Trump won will be loyal Republicans, and they will vote as such.

I agree. If the senators didnt vote for whomever they are supposed to, they would kill their political carreer.
But technically it could happen, even if it never will. It's also somehow funny to see how Trump kept saying during the debate that the election was "rigged" and now, obviously this doesnt come up anymore now that he won.

[Merlin1958]

My Giants pulled one out of their hat yesterday!!!! Next two weeks should be relatively easy. G-Men should be 8-3 at that point and very much in the thick of things!!!!!

Go Giants!!!!

[jreitan47]

Well, it's been an interesting week between the election, our very gloomy Oregon weather and getting in a car accident. I'm fine but my car was totaled and I wasn't at fault. Already bought a 2013 Kia Soul which I'm loving so far but wasn't looking for a new car payment (I was just about to pay off mine!). In between it all, I started the planning for my 10th (!!) annual AIDS benefit here in Oregon. In years past we've raised as much as $40,000 in a year for Oregon HIV/AIDS organizations and this year I've chosen four organizations to split the funds. We'll be benefiting rural and urban organizations that promote prevention, that offer care management and will also be benefiting a summer camp for children affected by the disease. If you care to donate (and many have here in years past, thank you!), you can do so online: www.tinyurl.com/redribbon2017 This year also marks the 10 years that I've "officially" been diagnosed with this disease.

[Sir_Boomme]

Almost 5 million people voted for this petition : "Electoral College: Make Hillary Clinton President on December 19. "
>>> https://www.change.org/p/electoral-c...ter_responsive

^That ain't gonna happen.

True. That's just another form of protest.

The electors who will be representing the various states where Trump won will be loyal Republicans, and they will vote as such.

I agree. If the senators didnt vote for whomever they are supposed to, they would kill their political carreer.
But technically it could happen, even if it never will. It's also somehow funny to see how Trump kept saying during the debate that the election was "rigged" and now, obviously this doesnt come up anymore now that he won.

While the number of the electoral college votes are determined by the number of senators + the number of House Reps. from Zach state, the actual Electoral college voters are state level politicians and higher ranking party affiliates.

and the election system is rigged... just ask 'ol Bernie.

[Sir_Boomme]

so... election is over... and since I've already have a self-imposed ban from the political discussion thread (so I don't lose the few friends I have here),
before I have to ban myself from the Random thread also... onto more important and random things. Like hotrods!

the Fiero 350 V8 engine got a makeover this past 2 weeks..
Before...


and the after....


and the new night time view....

[Merlin1958]

Very nice, Terry!!!!!

Spoiler:

For the record, though you may be considered a "weirdo" like myself, I will always consider you a friend. Unless of course you try to get "Jack" from the Jack in the Box or Ronald McDonald elected!!! LOL LOL

[Ben Staad]

Also ask Ron Paul. He may not have had a snowballs chance but the GOP did some very sneaky procedural things to remove some delegates at the convention and last minute changes to restrict him from speaking.

and the election system is rigged... just ask 'ol Bernie.

[carlosdetweiller]

Fellow collectors,
This will be my last post. There are other areas of my life that need my time and attention more.

Happy Trails, Buckaroos.