Although Letti's story is very touching, yours is more to the point. The excalation of horrors and pseudo-psychological thrill in the movie was such it very soon became ludicrous.Originally Posted by Frunobulax
And, Nikolett - no, it doesn't make the shitty movie better. It's all in the mind, soul and heart of the beholder. There's nothing wrong in seeing good things in poor movies, but trying to watch something really good might be a nice change (and killing more than one bird with one stone)
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look, I've never seen Saw as I said--I saw trailers and stills and went, "Fuck this shit, man." To me the torture scenes from Gilliam's Brazil tell you many more lessons, all of which are more important than anything the Saw films can ever express.
My favorite bands can kick your favorite bands' asses.
The horizon is right and motionless like the EKG of a dying woman.
But dearest Jean, why is a movie good? Because you think and feel it is. It comes from you soul. Everything is born there. In your mind and in your soul. It's all in the mind, soul and heart of the beholder. Absolutely ture but it's true about all the movies and books and stories and so on.Although Letti's story is very touching, yours is more to the point. The excalation of horrors and pseudo-psychological thrill in the movie was such it very soon became ludicrous.
And, Nikolett - no, it doesn't make the shitty movie better. It's all in the mind, soul and heart of the beholder. There's nothing wrong in seeing good things in poor movies, but trying to watch something really good might be a nice change (and killing more than one bird with one stone)
For you if someone says somethng clever or valuable in a shit movie it's still shit. Because your personality needs more to accept something as good.
For me if someone says something interesting or deep in a shit movie I say "Hey, what has she just said?" or "What a minute, what has he just done?" and I start to think of it... and it makes it better for me.
I read a horrible book for 300 pages and it was so boring it's a surprise I could finish it at all. (It's a very famous Hungarian book and I felt I had to read it why the blue hell people were crazy about it.) And the last line of the book was incredibly good.
And altought the whole book was a bag of shit because of the last line I was it's worth to read it and it's an okay book.
My Moon would agree with you. He says a last line of a book can't make a book good. For him or you not. For me it's possible.
Many people don't like coffee. Me neither. But if I put lots of sugar in it I can drink it. It becomes drinkable moreover it's good however I can feel tat speciel coffee taste I don't like.
Most of the people who don't like coffee won't like or drink it with lots of sugar, either. They say it's still horrible.
Roland would have understood.
I feel as though your analogies are not getting the point across, Letti. However, it's almost 1:45AM here and I need sleep for Thanksgiving tomorrow/later today. I'll pass the proverbial baton to Messr. Melkovsky now.
My favorite bands can kick your favorite bands' asses.
The horizon is right and motionless like the EKG of a dying woman.
I say we are different. For me only one good line can make better a shit movie or a book. For others it can't. That's all.
And because we judge everything through our souls we all are right in our own ways.
Roland would have understood.
Melkovsky goes to work soon, but before he does:
Nikolett, let's not discuss everything at once. There are a few items, all different:
1. Whether or not Saw is a good movie. If we start discussing it, your post (#28) will come in handy.
2. Whether or not Saw, being a poor movie, has some redempting quality, like that message you keep referring to. (In my opinion, no, it doesn't.)
3. Whether or not a poor movie (given that all parties involved agreed that it is poor) can become better if anyone sees something good in it. (In my opinion, no, it can't)
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Absolutely.
Roland would have understood.
I like the idea as well.
The concept of a sanctimonious psychopath who uses various forms of torture in order to force people into accepting his twisted notion of do-gooderism is intriguing. My problem with the movie-and I'll admit that I only saw one of the film's sequels, but I'm assuming it was nearly identical to the original movie-is the poor execution. Poor casting, no thematic development-it's basically the same idea on spin cycle-and no genuine conflict.
I thought Hostel was far superior for a number of reasons. It had not only one but several compelling plot points. The premise of the film, i.e. that there could be a secret torture chamber, catering to Western sadists and which is countenanced by the local authorities, located in an EU nation :eye roll: is beyond stupid, but the underlying themes of the film are interesting.
1. That the profusion of degrading, atomizing pornography accessible through modern channels has desensitized our society-or at least a large portion of it-to the point where we need to seek pleasure in something that literally turns our fellow man into a piece of meat-this also conjures up the unresolved questions of Europe's relationship to The Holocaust, and makes you search deeper for an explanation as to how/why so many individuals would be able to dehumanize another race so completely and utterly without resort to their own conscience. Does this imply that the thing we call a "conscience" is not biologically innate? Or that it does not exist at all? If so, what does that say about us as a species?
2. The utter credulity-some would describe it as ignorance-of Western, but in particular American, tourists. The idea that Americans have such a deluded view of how human nature operates-because we are so isolated from the depredations and horrors that are ubiquitous throughout most of the world-that we expose ourself to those very threats whenever we encounter the baser, more feral aspects of life. This reminds me of a store-owner near me whose sister relayed an anecdote about a crime that happened in her home county in China, where a businessman had his organs stolen from him when he went to use a restroom. We usually think of naive, stupid Americans in this role, e.g. Rachel Corrie, Lori Beronson, etc.,but the theme of Hostel could be applied just as easily to any prosperous, overly civilized Western country, e.g. Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the countries of Western and Central Europe, etc...
I think the casting, direction, and most of the technical aspects of Hostel outshine Saw, which is why I think it's a much better film in addition to the aforementioned reasons.
That's pretty much how I live my life every day.
I truly believe you have to love with every moment because it seriously could be the last one you have. None of us know that.
One moment you are there, the next you are gone.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
I enjoyed the first three films quite a bit...the fourth one, not so much.
As a horror fan, I find the whole "torture porn" label demeaning. So because a horror film is gory its equatable with pornography? The Saw films have more plot development than all the Jason films combined. There's far more to it than people being tortured.
There are certain scenes in the DT series and King's work as a whole which come off as more gratitious in terms of gore and sex than the Saw films. (Particularly one in DT7...you know what I'm talking about...)
I found the first two movies to be pretty entertaining and pretty grose. The two last weren't all that but watchable. I just hope they end it with this fourth. The acting in it was totaly bad and the two detectives didn't really "connect" with me and made me feel their feelings where real.
Jigsaw was the only real caracter in that show. I liked the fact that we got to know more about his past then before.
/You Suck!
Saw *May Contain SPOILERS*
Are there are die-hard Saw fans out there? I am a huge fan of the Saw series and can not wait until the 5th one comes out this October! Seriously, I've lost count of how many times I've seen each movie.
Anyone elselikelove Saw? I haven't met too many Saw fans, so if you're one of them, be prepared--I'm going to talk your ear off. 8)
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FINALLY the got rid of that no talent hack Darren Lynn Bousmann from the director's chair. Let's hope we get a talented director for number 5, which I won't pay to see in theatres. SAW 4 was so bad it just hurt my head. It made plotlines from previous movies utterly pointless, tied things up horribly and left us with a 'who gives a fuck' twist that made my eyes roll into the back of my head...that darkness was more entertaining than that movie.
It's a shame, because I felt SAW three was a slight step up from SAW 2. SAW 4 went downhill from the moment they showed the title credits and just got worse and worse as it went. I haven't seen a movie that went from good to crap that bad since Dreamcatcher.
Me, personally, I'm still waiting for Dr. Gordon to make his return.
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I love the Saw series. I have the first 3 on DVD, Have not seen the fourth, hope to get it soon. Have heard it is not to good but will get it anyway. I hope there is a 5th.
Mia, from a SAW fan and a horror fan...do yourself a favour and avoid it. It's the only movie I've seen that managed to be bad AND cheapen it's predesecors in one foul swoop.
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My oldest daughter, all 4 of us are saw fans. We watch them as much as we can, she went to the movie with a friend to see the 4th and she said it was not good.
Woo! Finally, another "Dr. Gordon is alive" supporter!
As for Saw IV, I don't think it was terrible, but it definitely did not live up to my expectations and could have been better. Though DLB is tallented, I too am glad that he's not directing Saw V. I think the more gore he added, the better he thought the film would be. He lied about things that we would see in the movie and completely blew off sub-plots that were important to the series.
Now that David Hackel is directing Saw V, I believe that it will be a large improvement over Saw IV.
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What I hated about Boussman was that he brought nothing new to the table. All he did was borrow all of Wan's style and overuse it. What I hated about the SAW series was the jump cuts and flashes the entire damn movie. In the original, it helped display the insanity of the person in one of Jigsaw's traps, now it's just annoying. All the noises and crazy editing just isn't necessary. We get it after four movies, it's intense.
To be honest, these movies would fare much better with a documentary style of direction, no fancy editing for style or effects. It just be simply, down to earth and eerie.
I'm not sure how they can salvage the plot from SAW IV...I guess we'll find out. Maybe if they focused on creating a plot that actually goes somewhere istead of pumping out a movie every 12 months we'd get more out of it.
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I am going to mergre this with a pre-existing Saw thread.
Haha. So that's why I couldn't find it.
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"Hello, Kevin. I want to play a game. So far, in what loosely could be called your life, you have made a living posting automated spam on messageboards. Society would call you a spammer...a shill...I call you unworthy of the body that you possess, of the life that you've been given...Now we will see if you are willing to look inward, rather than outward, to give up the one thing you rely on in order to go on living...How much blood would you shed to stay alive, Kevin? Live or die... Make your choice."
A hound will die for you, but never lie to you. And he'll look you straight in the face.
My Collection
That was awesome CyberGhost.
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Now that the fanbase for Saw is rapidly decreasing with each movie, I'm finding it hard to find people to discuss the movie over.Is there anyone out there that is excited for Saw V? Me? I can't wait!
Now that Bousman is out of the picture, I think Saw will start going back to focusing more on storyline than gore. Although I don't mind the gore.
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Are they really making another one??
Only the gentle are ever really strong.
Yup, up to Saw VI and possibly Saw VII.
What do I say? Keep 'em comin'!!
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