Will Roland?... (the ka-tet question)

[Wuducynn]

This thread is for discussion on whether or not Roland in his next loop will draw a new ka-tet or will it be Jake, Susannah, Eddie and Oy again? My opinion is that he will draw the same ka-tet and this time it will be from the level of the Tower that Susannah went to through the door at the end of DT7.

[Darkthoughts]

I think same ka-tet, same levels. I don't think the ka-tet (where they are drawn from) are pivotal in preventing Roland from repeating his quest. I think the horn was the sign that this loop is the last...other than that I think the final loop will be played out much the same as the one we read about.

I think its the loops previous to that that were the ones that were different. In those I imagine Roland never really bonded with the others and never really became ka-tet at all...or at least not to the same degree.

[Jean]

ditto

[Valkyrie]

I think same ka-tet, same levels. I don't think the ka-tet (where they are drawn from) are pivotal in preventing Roland from repeating his quest. I think the horn was the sign that this loop is the last...other than that I think the final loop will be played out much the same as the one we read about.

I think its the loops previous to that that were the ones that were different. In those I imagine Roland never really bonded with the others and never really became ka-tet at all...or at least not to the same degree.

Now this intrigues me because for no specific reason, I believed that this would be Roland's last time, too. Refresh my memory and explain the significance of the horn...

I personally don't believe that he will necessarily draw the same people again. I have no problem with thinking that he might, but if so, I hope that he draws them from some other when than the last place we saw them. I like thinking of Jake and Eddie as brothers and I too like to think that this was their reward of some kind...Susannah's too.

[Darkthoughts]

The significance of the horn was that previously he hadn't picked it up at the battle on Jericho Hill - even though he'd had time to do so. I think it was symbolic of him considering his comrades as much as the tower.

[She-Oy]

I really don't think it would be the same ka-tet. I think it's different everytime. If it was the same, then Roland would be a little closer to realizing it's a loop.

I think the only reason Jake returned the second time is because it was in the same loop and he was supposed to be there on the journey, regardless if he was dropped or not.

[Wuducynn]

I really don't think it would be the same ka-tet. I think it's different everytime. If it was the same, then Roland would be a little closer to realizing it's a loop.

I think the only reason Jake returned the second time is because it was in the same loop and he was supposed to be there on the journey, regardless if he was dropped or not.

I think the biggest thing pointing towards Roland drawing the same ka-tet was the realization in Song of Susannah that Eddie was a reincarnation of Cuthbert.

[Matt]

perhaps he took the original katet through the first time (cuthbert, alain and those guys)

only on this loop, they were killed.

and that creates a question, what if he is a little further ahead each time? Where he steps back into it.

[Wuducynn]

No, I think they were killed back when he started out for the Tower and have been being reincarnated with each loop. So same ka-tet but maybe in different bodies. Maybe in Eddie, Susannah, Jake and Oy each time after...

[Darkthoughts]

Back to Roland not dropping Jake - if he didn't then there would be no need for Roland, Eddie and Suze to pull Jake through in the speaking circle, thus Suze wouldn't of gotten pregnant...no Mordred...etc - do you think the quest would have been able to conclude? Y'know, they'd never have been led to The Dixie Pig, found the Fedic door etc.

[Wuducynn]

Back to Roland not dropping Jake - if he didn't then there would be no need for Roland, Eddie and Suze to pull Jake through in the speaking circle, thus Suze wouldn't of gotten pregnant...no Mordred...etc - do you think the quest would have been able to conclude? Y'know, they'd never have been led to The Dixie Pig, found the Fedic door etc.

The quest would have been different no doubt and they probably would not be forced to go through the Dixie Pig to get to Fedic, but there would be other doors open to them I'm sure.

[MonteGss]

I'm not sure I think that Eddie, Suze and Jake are reincarnations of Roland's first ka-tet. I understand their similarities but I guess I just don't like that word, reincarnation. To me that sounds too much like: Eddie=Cuthbert. That doesn't feel right to me. Anyway, a bit more to the thread's question, I do believe Roland will always draw Eddie, Suze and Jake (Oy too) but I think their drawings will never be the same or be under the same circumstances that we've read.

[Jean]

I'm not sure I think that Eddie, Suze and Jake are reincarnations of Roland's first ka-tet. I understand their similarities but I guess I just don't like that word, reincarnation.

wholeheartedly agree

[Wuducynn]

I'm not sure I think that Eddie, Suze and Jake are reincarnations of Roland's first ka-tet. I understand their similarities but I guess I just don't like that word, reincarnation. To me that sounds too much like: Eddie=Cuthbert. That doesn't feel right to me.

Perhaps you might go back and read that chapter again, because it sure appears that Eddie IS a reincarnation of Cuthbert. Whether you like the word or not.

Anyway, a bit more to the thread's question, I do believe Roland will always draw Eddie, Suze and Jake (Oy too) but I think their drawings will never be the same or be under the same circumstances that we've read.

I agree. If the Tower stands, of course.

[Jean]

I'm not sure I think that Eddie, Suze and Jake are reincarnations of Roland's first ka-tet. I understand their similarities but I guess I just don't like that word, reincarnation. To me that sounds too much like: Eddie=Cuthbert. That doesn't feel right to me.

Perhaps you might go back and read that chapter again, because it sure appears that Eddie IS a reincarnation of Cuthbert. Whether you like the word or not.

I am not sure what you mean. I don't know about Monte, but I think I remember the text rather well and nothing gave me that impression (of reincarnation), or else it would cheapen the story for me so dramatically that I believe I would sure remember it. What exactly is the chapter you mean?

[Wuducynn]

I am not sure what you mean. I don't know about Monte, but I think I remember the text rather well and nothing gave me that impression (of reincarnation), or else it would cheapen the story for me so dramatically that I believe I would sure remember it. What exactly is the chapter you mean?

This is the chapter (I don't know the name or number off the top of my head) where Roland hypnotizes Stephen King. I'll post the exact paragraph when I get a chance tonight. I am at my office and don't have access to the book at the moment.

[Jean]

ok thank you!

[Matt]

I never thought "reincarnation", I figured it was more that Ka choose the same "types" of katet members every time he goes through.

[MonteGss]

I never thought "reincarnation", I figured it was more that Ka choose the same "types" of katet members every time he goes through.

I thought the same Matt. I know the chapter CK is refering to and the passage as well but I can't say I read it thinking reincarnation. I will see if I can find it for him since he is at work.


Found it:

When he is hypnotized, sai King says "Cuthbert and Eddie are twins." I think this is a much better way to describe them. Twinners, like everyone else seems to have in the story.

[Jake Chambers]

OK The Horn of Eld was meant to be blown as Roland came into view of the Tower. Because it represented the entire line of Eld and all of those who had fallen along the way. So I must say I agree that Roland had in fact found his Redemption when he and his ka-tet became as a family and he had more of a reason for living than just the Tower. And yes I think it is the last cycle because the Tower is sort of a way for him to find redemption. Remember the Beams are safe and so is King so things will be growing back again and almost be returning to normal for his world again. Although he has lost his ka-tet and everything he cared about, he has saved the Beam and his world will begin healing. So in that sense his quest is nearly done. The horn was a promise that he had visited the Tower by Gan.

[Matt]

Hmmm...but if it is a loop, the tower is in peril every time he goes through isn't it?

Meaning, nothing is saved at the end of the book, its all reset

[Jean]

even though it is a loop, it doesn't have to be a [vicious] circle. May as well be a spiral. It doesn't just reset it all, then, but brings it on an entirely different level.

(our world is still more or less all right, at least it hasn't come to an end yet. Someone must be taking care of our beam at this very moment.)

[Matt]

A spiral staircase is a great way to look at it. But I don't see "keystone" world has having its own beam. The beams (imo) transcend all levels of the tower.

[Jean]

maybe... I confess I am a little vague on how all that is organized, it just never interested me too much... but still you can't deny that the Tower still stands, or else where would we all be, keystone or no keystone?

And that must mean someone is saving it.

[Wuducynn]

even though it is a loop, it doesn't have to be a [vicious] circle. May as well be a spiral. It doesn't just reset it all, then, but brings it on an entirely different level.

(our world is still more or less all right, at least it hasn't come to an end yet. Someone must be taking care of our beam at this very moment.)

Great analogy Jean. I really like that. I also agree that each loop is not totally the same. Especially this next one I'm guessing considering he has the Horn of Eld now.