Roland: Saved or Damned?

[Wuducynn]

I voted Saved: After a number of loops.

I hope this next is his last - but I see no guarentees. He may have a couple more to do. But he learned a lot on the loop we read - so just maybe he's now on his last.

Same here. The next may be his last or may not.

[Childe 007]

My personal thoughts, ka is a wheel. Roland won't be "released" from the loop. I don't know that it's damnation. It is what it is.

This is my belief also.

And my answer to the poll question would be "NIETHER" without the qualifiers.

Roland is not saved or damned - As R of G says - Roland simply is. We were given a view of one of his journey's to the Tower. I think that there were many before this one - and that there will be many after this one - until the Tower falls.

That point in the desert is "the" critical convergence of time/ space as far as King's multiverse is concerned. That was the point at which there was no going back. There is only going forward - forever and ever - amen.

Besides - as the scribe himself said: (paraphrased i'm sure cause I'm not lookin' it up) It was the best opening line he'd ever written.

The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

[Letti]

What a damn good thread, Jean. Thank you for it. I was thinking about it, too.
Anyway I can't vote because for me: absolutely both.

[pathoftheturtle]

Thanks, Matt. That means a lot.

R of G:

"Is it thy will, oh Father, that men shall toil for wrong?"

-- Save the People
(from Godspell)
lyrics by Ebenezer Elliot

[alinda]

this is a fine answer!

My personal thoughts, ka is a wheel. Roland won't be "released" from the loop. I don't know that it's damnation. It is what it is.

This is my belief also.

And my answer to the poll question would be "NIETHER" without the qualifiers.

Roland is not saved or damned - As R of G says - Roland simply is. We were given a view of one of his journey's to the Tower. I think that there were many before this one - and that there will be many after this one - until the Tower falls.

That point in the desert is "the" critical convergence of time/ space as far as King's multiverse is concerned. That was the point at which there was no going back. There is only going forward - forever and ever - amen.

Besides - as the scribe himself said: (paraphrased i'm sure cause I'm not lookin' it up) It was the best opening line he'd ever written.

The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

[SaiCmont19]

So okey dokey, here's my tought...

Roland was on his way to save the tower, correct?

So why would the tower send him back to the beginning of his journey and not let him save it? If it was really in danger why wouldn't it just let him help?

[razz]

1. Rolands quest wasn't to save the Tower, but climb to the top. Saving the tower was just a requirement to fulfill his quest. they say that in one of the books. i think six.
2. the tower is lonely and very very bored.

[Matt]

I've been saying for a while that I don't think the Tower had much to do with it except how it manifests itself through Roland's perception.

I liked the idea I read earlier that he never really made it to the actual nexus, the Tower he found was himself and he failed miserably.

[SaiCmont19]

Do you think it's possible that on one level, Roland actually reached the tower and the room on the top?

After he got there he realized all the mistakes he made along the way and the people he wronged, so he made himself start over? And the voice he heard at the end is himself?

I'm just throwing crazy ideas out there

[razz]

Do you think it's possible that on one level, Roland actually reached the tower and the room on the top?

After he got there he realized all the mistakes he made along the way and the people he wronged, so he made himself start over? And the voice he heard at the end is himself?

I'm just throwing crazy ideas out there

keep throwing em'. just make sure they ain't too sharp. i like my eyes where they are.

[Ka-tet]

Do you think it's possible that on one level, Roland actually reached the tower and the room on the top?

After he got there he realized all the mistakes he made along the way and the people he wronged, so he made himself start over? And the voice he heard at the end is himself?

I'm just throwing crazy ideas out there

Its a nice idea to be fair.

[razz]

don't think on it too hard. it's not something to lose sleep over. like a buick.

[LadyHitchhiker]

The tower gone crazy...

Perhaps crazy with boredom like Blaine...








Maybe Blaine is the tower....

[razz]

The tower gone crazy...

leik de focks!

[LadyHitchhiker]

The llamafox?

[razz]

the wha?

[Letti]

It's my absolute favourite thread so let me bump it.
Anyway I still can't vote because I think: both.

[John_and_Yoko]

Call me an optimist, but I'd like to believe that ultimately Roland can and will be saved.

However, I'm not as optimistic as the majority of voters seem to be--I think it'll still take several more loops before such will happen.

The explanation just given by R_of_G and Childe 007 is a good one, but let's not forget that ka can be changed--Stephen King was supposedly going to die, but Jake saved him from such a fate.

Anyway, it was stated in the last volume that Roland had gone beyond what ka wanted him to do after that, and after the Breakers had been stopped from doing what they were doing. Maybe it was Patrick Danville's ka taking over, so he could destroy the Crimson king, but Roland didn't have to go to the Tower after that. He could have made Patrick do something to stop him.

So I think Roland will achieve salvation (King's universe seems to indicate that good ultimately triumphs over evil--even if it takes a long, perilous road to get there), but realistically it'll be more than just one or two more loops before he does, given his personality.

But if there's no hope, why change anything like having the Horn of Eld with Roland in the desert? That, to me, would be the ultimate cruelty and damnation, to change the way it happens each time, but never to get out of it. Worst of all, he wouldn't even know it was happening to him.

[Ka-tet]

Saved, the next loop is the last.

[razz]

the loops might be a sort of purgatory. not heaven but not close enough to hell either. the space between, where he must work to aquire salvation, or he'll be damned if he does something wrong. at the time, he isn't doing the right OR wrong things.

[Archangel(tjk)]

You know I always thought that the horn was important because of the poem Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came, the whole inspiration behind the D.T. story. An essential feature to Roland's journey is the blowing of the horn. It is a cathartic experience, that brings his suffering in the gloomy wilderness and experiences of the poem to a conclusion.
I think the turning point was not Roland going into the desert but rather the destruction of the horn, it made it impossible for him to bring all of his suffering to a conclusion. Thus he is given the horn so that he may arrive again and blow to the memory of those who have fallen.
You could also look at the poem as being the end of the cycle started at the end of book 7, when you could interpret that redemption is finally given to Roland or at the very least an end to the journey.

[Darkthoughts]

I've been thinking about the symbolizm of the horn alot too lately.

It does seem to presage the dawning of a new era - a blast of a horn is usually to herald a beginning or an end - therefore, we could interpret Roland sounding the horn at the Tower in the final loop as the end of his quest, and perhaps the dawning of a new age for...Mid World...all worlds...mankind?

[mia/susannah]

I voted Saved: the next loop is the last before final salvation. I think Roland is starting to understand a little more about love and can finally find redemption. The last loop may find him able to cry off the tower.

[razz]

so you're saying that he's learning. his his memories are wiped, his past experiences and subconscious are still intact

[Archangel(tjk)]

He may be learning but I don't think salvation comes from crying off the tower.