View Poll Results: Roland: Saved or Damned?

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  • Saved: the next loop is the last before final salvation

    65 44.83%
  • Saved: after a number of loops

    29 20.00%
  • Saved (neither of the above: give your own version)

    11 7.59%
  • Damned: the next loop is the last before final damnation

    1 0.69%
  • Damned: stuck in the eternal loop forever

    32 22.07%
  • Damned (neither of the above: give your own version)

    7 4.83%
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Thread: Roland: Saved or Damned?

  1. #51
    Going Slap Happy Mattrick is a splendid one to behold Mattrick is a splendid one to behold Mattrick is a splendid one to behold Mattrick is a splendid one to behold Mattrick is a splendid one to behold Mattrick is a splendid one to behold Mattrick is a splendid one to behold Mattrick's Avatar

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    I think Roland is damned as soon as he let's Jake fall. When the Tower finally falls he'll see that he has been living inside a blade of grass on an alien world.

  2. #52
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    When the tower falls, I think that's what we will all see.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  3. #53
    the new Mr. Amy Pond! Mordred Deschain is on a distinguished road Mordred Deschain's Avatar

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    I don't think the Tower will ever fall. Roland or no, Gan will pick it's savior. It's a story of good vs. evil. The Crimson King (ya CK) went mad, and believed that bringing the tower down would ensure his salvation and his place among the mighty of all. The story has the traditional purpose that if you stand true (or fight for the side of good/order/for the belief that life is sacred) it will overcome evil/chaos. And before anyone says anything, I know that order and choas aren't actually good or evil. You can't have Order without Chaos and visa versa.


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  4. #54
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordred Deschain View Post
    The Crimson King (ya CK) went mad, and believed that bringing the tower down would ensure his salvation and his place among the mighty of all.
    There was quite a bit more to it than believing that bringing down the Tower would ensure his salvation and his place among the mighty of all. I don't believe he cared about "salvation" and he already had a place among the mighty. Los was born to be the slayer of the Dark Tower, who is also Gan which in turn is also the many worlds. He was born as the champion of the Outer Dark AKA Discordia. If you haven't yet check out the end story in issue 2 which covers this.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  5. #55
    Gunslinger Apprentice Aesculapius is on a distinguished road Aesculapius's Avatar

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    The most important lesson a master will give his student is to tear the temple (the tower) down to its foundation.

    11
    Momma told me there would be DAYS like this. SHe is coming back around, though...to put things back the way they should be. HIS story? Nah...we've had enough of that.

  6. #56
    the new Mr. Amy Pond! Mordred Deschain is on a distinguished road Mordred Deschain's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordred Deschain View Post
    The Crimson King (ya CK) went mad, and believed that bringing the tower down would ensure his salvation and his place among the mighty of all.
    There was quite a bit more to it than believing that bringing down the Tower would ensure his salvation and his place among the mighty of all. I don't believe he cared about "salvation" and he already had a place among the mighty. Los was born to be the slayer of the Dark Tower, who is also Gan which in turn is also the many worlds. He was born as the champion of the Outer Dark AKA Discordia. If you haven't yet check out the end story in issue 2 which covers this.

    Dude, I was trying to be somewhat brief. I'll re-write that entire section if you want me to. WEll, ok, I was little wrong with my point about Los, but my main point was on the tower and it's savior.

    I mean, if it's repeating itself, then I don't think the tower ever really falls and it's never really saved. It is always balancing between Order and Chaos.
    However, I do think there is a possibility that the Tower is never really in jeopardy, the story could simply be Roland's limbo (damn I can't think of the word, not limbo, but the word that describes the place inbetween heaven and hell...OH...) I mean Roland's purgatory. To where he may find salvation, but at the moment he IS paying for the mistakes he made in life.


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  7. #57
    Traveler Jake Chambers is on a distinguished road Jake Chambers's Avatar

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    His salvation is at hand..
    "Go then there are other worlds than these..."

  8. #58
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordred Deschain View Post
    Dude, I was trying to be somewhat brief. I'll re-write that entire section if you want me to. WEll, ok, I was little wrong with my point about Los, but my main point was on the tower and it's savior..
    Gotcha. I understand you were trying to be brief. You don't have to re-write it at all. I wasn't mad or anything just making a point. Breathe in, breathe out...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordred Deschain View Post
    I mean, if it's repeating itself, then I don't think the tower ever really falls and it's never really saved. It is always balancing between Order and Chaos.
    However, I do think there is a possibility that the Tower is never really in jeopardy, the story could simply be Roland's limbo (damn I can't think of the word, not limbo, but the word that describes the place inbetween heaven and hell...OH...) I mean Roland's purgatory. To where he may find salvation, but at the moment he IS paying for the mistakes he made in life.
    I know what you mean and I've thought about all these things also. From my point of view is that the Tower really is in danger. I can't go into all the details at the moment though...
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  9. #59
    the new Mr. Amy Pond! Mordred Deschain is on a distinguished road Mordred Deschain's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordred Deschain View Post
    Dude, I was trying to be somewhat brief. I'll re-write that entire section if you want me to. WEll, ok, I was little wrong with my point about Los, but my main point was on the tower and it's savior..
    Gotcha. I understand you were trying to be brief. You don't have to re-write it at all. I wasn't mad or anything just making a point. Breathe in, breathe out...
    *breathing in.....breathing out...breathing in...breathing out...feeling a little light headed* "i think i see stars"

    Hey, sorry if I sound like dick sometimes, sometimes I have trouble expressing myself thru the written word...heh


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  10. #60
    Gunslinger Apprentice Aesculapius is on a distinguished road Aesculapius's Avatar

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    Babel on.
    Momma told me there would be DAYS like this. SHe is coming back around, though...to put things back the way they should be. HIS story? Nah...we've had enough of that.

  11. #61
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Chambers View Post
    His salvation is at hand..
    His salvation is a moment away at any given time. Just cry off and hole up.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  12. #62
    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    I guess I don't understand completely how Roland crying off will be his salvation. So...his salvation is the entire multi-verse will be destroyed? He cries off the Tower, which will cause it to fall and everyone to be destroyed and that is salvation? That doesn't seem like a "saving" to me. Hmmm. Maybe I am not understanding some of the points above...specifically Matt's, Odetta's and She-Oy's. *shrugs*

  13. #63
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonteGss View Post
    I guess I don't understand completely how Roland crying off will be his salvation. So...his salvation is the entire multi-verse will be destroyed? He cries off the Tower, which will cause it to fall and everyone to be destroyed and that is salvation? That doesn't seem like a "saving" to me. Hmmm. Maybe I am not understanding some of the points above...specifically Matt's, Odetta's and She-Oy's. *shrugs*
    Lets say (in another loop) he stays and waits and confronts Mordred at Le Casse Roi Russe and they fight him there and slay him and then Roland decides to listen to the advice of Rando Thoughtful and that going on would just endanger the Tower because with his son dead and the Beams reawakening the CK is weakened and can't get off the balcony he is trapped on, so him going there would give the CK his chance for a probably long time, to actually be released from his imprisonment.
    Roland realizes that going to the top of the Tower is not what he is meant to do and that turning back and letting go is what would ultimately be the only way to keep the Tower safe.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  14. #64
    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    Ok, CK, I understand that scenario. My question now is this: so in this case, "salvation" for Roland is leaving the Tower be, continuing on with only Susannah and tormenting himself over the decisions he made in his past (ie, dropping Jake, seeing him die again, along with Eddie) which were ALL for his quest for the Tower? Again, I don't see this as salvation but damnation. It's kinda sad.

  15. #65
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    I guess his salvation would be in his letting go of his quest for the Dark Tower would also be being able to find peace with his decisions and the quest itself. The realization that each time he goes to the Tower he gives the one person who could and would destroy it (Los) the chance that he needs to do so.
    His obsession with climbing to the top his damnation. His release of the obsession his salvation.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  16. #66
    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    His obsession with climbing to the top his damnation. His release of the obsession his salvation.
    I think this may sum up other people's arguments as well. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

    I don't buy it at all but I understand the point. He is saved because he decides not to climb to the top? He is saved after doing all his "evil, selfish" things during and for this quest?
    *shrugs*

  17. #67
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    I think he should have just saved Susan and that would have ended it.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  18. #68
    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I think he should have just saved Susan and that would have ended it.
    How would this have stopped the Tower and the Beams from continuing to get worse? The end result of saving Susan would be that the Tower falls and everyone dies, right? Is this salvation?

  19. #69
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonteGss View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    His obsession with climbing to the top his damnation. His release of the obsession his salvation.
    I think this may sum up other people's arguments as well. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

    I don't buy it at all but I understand the point. He is saved because he decides not to climb to the top? He is saved after doing all his "evil, selfish" things during and for this quest?
    *shrugs*
    Personally I was hoping they would have all gotten eaten by Mordred and Mordred would have released the Crimson King and the Tower falls releasing everyone from Gan's prison. But thats just in MY special version given to me by King.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  20. #70
    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    Personally I was hoping they would have all gotten eaten by Mordred and Mordred would have released the Crimson King and the Tower falls releasing everyone from Gan's prison. But thats just in MY special version given to me by King.
    You're crazy man.
    Mordred wouldn't have released him. He would have walked right by his psycho dad and climbed to the top himself.

  21. #71
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonteGss View Post

    You're crazy man.
    Mordred wouldn't have released him. He would have walked right by his psycho dad and climbed to the top himself.
    Not from the description of him towards the end. He wasn't interested in climbing to the top, just releasing his Red Father after killing Roland. You're probably thinking of Walter. Anyway, this is getting off topic.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  22. #72
    Army of the 12 Monkeys pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle's Avatar

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    Well, then, let's try to get it back on, because the topic is a damned good one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I think that is the message King wanted to get out there. If you want salvation, cry off your obsessions that tend to ruin your life.

    Its not like the man never had any

    Obsessions I mean
    He has. Many. In On Writing, King talks about his old desk and when he got a new one as a parable to give the moral that one's art should serve one's life, not the other way around.

    I think that's a better definition of the quest for Tower. It's not a drug. It's a calling. One may need to learn to manage the pursuit, but not to give it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    ...remember Roland admitting to Eddie, Jean, that he'd sacrifice even the beams to get to the Tower (DT7 - at Agul Siento I think, can't remember without looking).
    Well, now I'm going to have to look, because I don't think he ever said that. I do recall Nancy Deepneau asking him if he cared more about climbing the Tower than saving all of existance, and I recall that Roland replied that "The Dark Tower is existance"... but that doesn't necessarily mean the same thing, does it?

    I imagine Roland might have said (not that this is an actual quote) that he'd sacrifice even the beams if he could not get to the Tower. I don't think he takes for granted that the world is good. His real quest is to make sure of it. Why save the multiverse? Just so that we can live? Even if life is just horror?

  23. #73
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    I like "manage the pursuit", that really works for me.

    Great post Path.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  24. #74
    Numenorean ManOfWesternesse is on a distinguished road ManOfWesternesse's Avatar

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    I voted Saved: After a number of loops.

    I hope this next is his last - but I see no guarentees. He may have a couple more to do. But he learned a lot on the loop we read - so just maybe he's now on his last.
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  25. #75
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    My personal thoughts, ka is a wheel. Roland won't be "released" from the loop. I don't know that it's damnation. It is what it is.

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