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View Poll Results: Roland: Saved or Damned?

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  • Saved: the next loop is the last before final salvation

    65 44.83%
  • Saved: after a number of loops

    29 20.00%
  • Saved (neither of the above: give your own version)

    11 7.59%
  • Damned: the next loop is the last before final damnation

    1 0.69%
  • Damned: stuck in the eternal loop forever

    32 22.07%
  • Damned (neither of the above: give your own version)

    7 4.83%
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Thread: Roland: Saved or Damned?

  1. #26
    Gunslinger Apprentice She-Oy is on a distinguished road She-Oy's Avatar

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    I too agree the series is deep on many, many levels. And as much as I consider King a genius, I have to wonder if he knowingly did that, or if it is just some of us who tend to over-analyze things.
    It's peanut butter jelly time!

  2. #27
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    We can't re write history here, nothing mattered to him other than the tower.
    Sometimes I wonder if we read the same book...

    I gave some arguments here, but it's only the beginning. I will go back to the question of Roland learning to love and care in the future - though I hope that someone who will do it better than I can might treat this topic first.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #28
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    I understand he reconsidered Jean, all the way through the book we saw him struggling with this question but it didn't stop him.

    Drug addicts and alcoholics also struggle with their obsession but that does not stop them from walking over their mother to get at it.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  4. #29
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    A new question arises, then (probably not for this thread, though): is obsession bad because it is an obsession or because of its object and the means used to get that object? I mean, drugs are intrinsically bad, and I am not sure there's anything intrinsically bad in the desire to see the Tower, let alone to save the universe. Should, for example, great scientists or artists have "cried off" as soon as they realized they were obsessed?

    In other word, I don't think he should have stopped his quest. But he should learn to choose his means on his way to the Tower - which is precisely what he's been learning to do during all 7 books.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  5. #30
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    About erasing Crimson King from existence?
    Yes, that's bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    I mean, drugs are intrinsically bad
    I disagree with this also. But that is for another thread. No, having an obsession doesn't automatically mean its bad, I agree with you there.
    Last edited by Jean; 07-25-2007 at 10:14 AM. Reason: merged as two consecutive posts with nothing warranting them being separate
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  6. #31
    Gunslinger Apprentice She-Oy is on a distinguished road She-Oy's Avatar

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    If it's a true obsession, regardless if it's crystal meth or needing to vacuum the floor three times a day, I'm gonna to say it's bad.

    Maybe the object of obsession isn't bad, but having it be is...it's a mental flaw, and one that disallows for logical thinking and behaviour.
    It's peanut butter jelly time!

  7. #32
    Gunslinger Apprentice Aesculapius is on a distinguished road Aesculapius's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by She-Oy View Post
    ...I have to wonder if he knowingly did that, or if it is just some of us who tend to over-analyze things.
    It flows.
    Momma told me there would be DAYS like this. SHe is coming back around, though...to put things back the way they should be. HIS story? Nah...we've had enough of that.

  8. #33
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    I think an obsession that is not a postive influence on your life could be considered a bad thing.

    I am obsessed with Dora and I love it, but it is a positive thing in my life. If I was obsessed with her and she didn't want it...

    stalking...
    police...
    restraining order...
    jail time...

    should probably try to get over the obsession, it would be ruining my life at that point
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  9. #34
    Gunslinger Apprentice She-Oy is on a distinguished road She-Oy's Avatar

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    I don't consider love obsession. Sounds like you two just truely love each other.
    It's peanut butter jelly time!

  10. #35
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    That could be true to. I suppose its all about perspective.

    I can agree with the statement that all obsessive behavior is bad and reclassify my blinding devotion to Dora
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  11. #36
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    And here all this time I thought Matt was obsessed with me!
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  12. #37
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    You looked so scared when you found that dead cat in your mailbox.

    ^Lisey's Story.

    I love cats
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  13. #38
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

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    I pretty much took that to be the main theme aswell. Saving the universe becomes urgent to you the reader, as I'm sure it is to Eddie, Suze and Jake - but remember Roland admitting to Eddie, Jean, that he'd sacrifice even the beams to get to the Tower (DT7 - at Agul Siento I think, can't remember without looking).

  14. #39
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    Yes. That's precisely why we've been discussing all that for years instead of resuming the moral in two words and calling it a day. I can't think of another tale that would be so complicated.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  15. #40
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

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    I was replying to the wrong page by accident! I was agreeing with Matt that the main theme is letting go of our obsessions - but I also agree with you Jean that its very layered and complex and can't be described as having a single moral to the story.

  16. #41
    West Coast sarah is on a distinguished road sarah's Avatar

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    GRRR! I can't vote. I'm torn. I want and hope that this would be his last loop but damn you Stephen King if you wouldn't damn him for eternity



    Lalalalaaaa, lalalalaaa
    Lalalalaaaa, lalalalaaa



    sugarpop <3

  17. #42
    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    I voted Saved, the next is his last.
    I vote that way because of the horn (which I do believe is important, mostly because of its use is the poem) and simply because Roland not finally finding peace is just too heart-breaking for me. Roland rules!

  18. #43
    the new Mr. Amy Pond! Mordred Deschain is on a distinguished road Mordred Deschain's Avatar

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    I didn't read everyone's posts, but I would have to say it depends. If the story in the books is the actual first cycle, then he could me saved, eventually. However, I also think that the tower is in repeated jeapordy, and Roland (like it or not) may be the savior of the tower no matter what. If the story continues, there could be a different nemesis, and he has to find a way to save it. His memory is lost, so he never really knows how many times he saves it. It could be the reason why he is older. Although, you would think that Gan would reward him for his effort and release him from his duty.

    As far as the horn goes, what if the last time he lost one of his guns, and after saving the tower was rewarded with his second gun.


    The Tardis (Time And Relative Dimension(s) In Space) duh!

  19. #44
    Gunslinger Daghain is on a distinguished road Daghain's Avatar

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    I threw this out somewhere else, but I'll post it again here because it's relevant to the thread. I ran across a really good piece of fanfic that covers this very topic. It's kind of the ending I wish had happened. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2747620/1/



    "People, especially children, aren't measured by their IQ. What's important about them is whether they're good or bad, and these children are bad." ~ Alan Bernard


    "You needn't die happy when your day comes, but you must die satisfied, for you have lived your life from beginning to end and ka is always served." ~ Roland Deschain

  20. #45
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Ugh, Los save me from "I wish it would have happened like this" fan fiction.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  21. #46
    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    Ugh, Los save me from "I wish it would have happened like this" fan fiction.
    Right on buddy.

  22. #47
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordred Deschain View Post
    I also think that the tower is in repeated jeapordy, and Roland (like it or not) may be the savior of the tower no matter what.
    I, too, think that the tower is in constant jeopardy, but if Roland hasn't (obviously) existed since the beginning of times, I believe there's been other saviors before him, and there will be others after him.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  23. #48
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    I, too, think that the tower is in constant jeopardy, but if Roland hasn't (obviously) existed since the beginning of times, I believe there's been other saviors before him, and there will be others after him.
    True. According to the comics, Arthur Eld was one of (if not the) first.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  24. #49
    Gunslinger Apprentice She-Oy is on a distinguished road She-Oy's Avatar

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    I'm not so sure just anyone can see the tower. Er, let me try to rephrase that. I think the tower Roland was was "Roland's Tower", perhaps everyone has there own...kind like heaven?
    So as long as Roland is damned so is the tower.

    Does that make any sense to anyone?
    It's peanut butter jelly time!

  25. #50
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    it does. Paradoxically, it doesn't have to prevent the Tower still remaining One and Only. It is One, and it is "his own" for everyone who seeks it and finds it in him to go till the end.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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