I voted saved: the next loop is the last before final salvation.
Saved: the next loop is the last before final salvation
Saved: after a number of loops
Saved (neither of the above: give your own version)
Damned: the next loop is the last before final damnation
Damned: stuck in the eternal loop forever
Damned (neither of the above: give your own version)
Roland: Saved or Damned?
I voted saved: the next loop is the last before final salvation.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He is damned to be stuck in a continual loop until he gives up his quest for the Tower... which, by doing that, is his form of salvation.
Buddy, you think you look strong? You’re wearing a cape.
I have to agree on this one. Maybe someone can explain how people can be so sure that getting the horn is enough proof for knowing it is the last loop before salvation?Originally Posted by Odetta
After all, we never knew how many loops Roland has been through and when they started each time, so perhaps it starts at a totally different period of his life every time he starts on the journey again and it's his biggest fault (in the story that's told in the books, it'd be leaving Jake to die) that's used as a starting point. In the case of Jake's betrayal, the story couldn't start in the way station because Roland had to do and see some things before he met Jake, so that'd be why the loop starts back at the point when Roland's chasing the man in black. That's just what I think, though.
I don't see it as a proof, I see it as a sign. To my mind, everything Roland had done by then - in the loop we saw - is proof enough. The only thing I don't know is what more he can do.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know a lot of people have discussed it in TDT.net, but I'm still not sure this is going to be the last loop. It could just be another one in which he gets closer to achieving his quest as he calls getting at the top of the Tower. I'd also like to see what more he can do... maybe with a little luck, we'll get some info in the comics?I don't see it as a proof, I see it as a sign. To my mind, everything Roland had done by then - in the loop we saw - is proof enough. The only thing I don't know is what more he can do.
As long as he makes the choice to enter the Tower, i believe that he is damned. I don't think the tower belongs to anyone. I think it (the Tower) is Kings representation of God and is to be unquestioned. Roland's pride fools him to believe that his quest is to reach the Tower, when in truth (as he learns when he receives his watch) he is only supposed to save the beams.
Roland is purgatory bound until he realizes this.
Is King Catholic?
I, too, do not think it is necessarily the last loop, but it is a sign that Roland progressed in the last one. However, I also feel that it is possible for Roland to regress on these loops and move even further from salvation.I know a lot of people have discussed it in TDT.net, but I'm still not sure this is going to be the last loop. It could just be another one in which he gets closer to achieving his quest as he calls getting at the top of the Tower. I'd also like to see what more he can do... maybe with a little luck, we'll get some info in the comics?I don't see it as a proof, I see it as a sign. To my mind, everything Roland had done by then - in the loop we saw - is proof enough. The only thing I don't know is what more he can do.
It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
A whole lot more than riches and muscle.
The hands of the many must join as one.
And together we'll cross the river.
Puscifer, "The Humbling River"
I voted the same as Odetta for the exact same reason. I think he has to cry off to end it which represents a very common paradox in all of our lives
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
I voted saved, the next loop being the last - as explained in the other thread I think it all rests on the fact he now has the horn.
I'm with Darkthoughs on this one. I think now that he has the horn this will be his last time.
"People, especially children, aren't measured by their IQ. What's important about them is whether they're good or bad, and these children are bad." ~ Alan Bernard
"You needn't die happy when your day comes, but you must die satisfied, for you have lived your life from beginning to end and ka is always served." ~ Roland Deschain
which makes three of us...
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Four
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
Not me
**stirs the pot**
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
*pushes Matt into the pot*
But seriously, I do not believe the horn to represent anything except the idea that this loop will be "different".
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
Just a sort of starting point of his redemption?
I could be the point that marks where his obsession actually began. Perhaps having it with him will be another way try and remember his humanity through the next loop.
but I am not sure it will do the trick and the vast majority of us seem to think that even if he knew, he would still do it.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
Yes, I agree with the fact that Roland will always give the tower precedence. I sort of consider that to be an occupational hazard of any hero though - y'know compulsive/obsessive behaviour
I think he would still go through with it even if he knew but I think that "difference" will be that he could make it to the top of the Tower and into the room instead of just being pushed back. Also, and here is an option folk haven't even thought of...maybe he gets killed in the next loop and his ka-tet fails.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
I thought about Roland getting killed - before he even draws a ka-tet, though. I argued elsewhere that if he refused to kill everyone at Tull but died there instead, it might be just what is expected from him - and he would be saved, and the Beam heal itself, and Blaine rots and falls apart before releasing that gas, and the wolves stop forever, etc. It would be ok as a speculation if wasn't so thin. Your reasoning opens other horizons, however.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i think the horn is irrelevant.
you know those video games where you finish the game and then you get some stupid cheat code that is really irrelevant since you've finished the game anyhow?
that is the horn.
Last edited by sarajean; 07-30-2007 at 03:35 PM. Reason: spelling was correct. no need for (sp?)s :D
Buddy, you think you look strong? You’re wearing a cape.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
Buddy, you think you look strong? You’re wearing a cape.
I voted with Matt and Odetta...but then again, I think the 3 of us were chatting about this very thing the other day and we all agreed then too.
It's peanut butter jelly time!
I think that is the message King wanted to get out there. If you want salvation, cry off your obsessions that tend to ruin your life.
Its not like the man never had any
Obsessions I mean
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
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