View Poll Results: Roland: Saved or Damned?

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  • Saved: the next loop is the last before final salvation

    65 44.83%
  • Saved: after a number of loops

    29 20.00%
  • Saved (neither of the above: give your own version)

    11 7.59%
  • Damned: the next loop is the last before final damnation

    1 0.69%
  • Damned: stuck in the eternal loop forever

    32 22.07%
  • Damned (neither of the above: give your own version)

    7 4.83%
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Thread: Roland: Saved or Damned?

  1. #1
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    Default Roland: Saved or Damned?

    I voted saved: the next loop is the last before final salvation.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  2. #2
    Nigel Tufnel Odetta has a spectacular aura about Odetta has a spectacular aura about Odetta has a spectacular aura about Odetta's Avatar

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    He is damned to be stuck in a continual loop until he gives up his quest for the Tower... which, by doing that, is his form of salvation.
    There's a fine line between stupid and clever.

    You can't really dust for vomit.

  3. #3
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    I voted the same as Odetta for the exact same reason. I think he has to cry off to end it which represents a very common paradox in all of our lives
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  4. #4
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

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    I voted saved, the next loop being the last - as explained in the other thread I think it all rests on the fact he now has the horn.

  5. #5
    Gunslinger Daghain is on a distinguished road Daghain's Avatar

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    I'm with Darkthoughs on this one. I think now that he has the horn this will be his last time.



    "People, especially children, aren't measured by their IQ. What's important about them is whether they're good or bad, and these children are bad." ~ Alan Bernard


    "You needn't die happy when your day comes, but you must die satisfied, for you have lived your life from beginning to end and ka is always served." ~ Roland Deschain

  6. #6
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    which makes three of us...

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. #7
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Four
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  8. #8
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    Not me



    **stirs the pot**
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  9. #9
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

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    *pushes Matt into the pot*

  10. #10
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    But seriously, I do not believe the horn to represent anything except the idea that this loop will be "different".
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  11. #11
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

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    Just a sort of starting point of his redemption?

  12. #12
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    I could be the point that marks where his obsession actually began. Perhaps having it with him will be another way try and remember his humanity through the next loop.

    but I am not sure it will do the trick and the vast majority of us seem to think that even if he knew, he would still do it.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  13. #13
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

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    Yes, I agree with the fact that Roland will always give the tower precedence. I sort of consider that to be an occupational hazard of any hero though - y'know compulsive/obsessive behaviour

  14. #14
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    I think he would still go through with it even if he knew but I think that "difference" will be that he could make it to the top of the Tower and into the room instead of just being pushed back. Also, and here is an option folk haven't even thought of...maybe he gets killed in the next loop and his ka-tet fails.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  15. #15
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    I thought about Roland getting killed - before he even draws a ka-tet, though. I argued elsewhere that if he refused to kill everyone at Tull but died there instead, it might be just what is expected from him - and he would be saved, and the Beam heal itself, and Blaine rots and falls apart before releasing that gas, and the wolves stop forever, etc. It would be ok as a speculation if wasn't so thin. Your reasoning opens other horizons, however.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  16. #16
    Nigel Tufnel Odetta has a spectacular aura about Odetta has a spectacular aura about Odetta has a spectacular aura about Odetta's Avatar

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    i think the horn is irrelevant.

    you know those video games where you finish the game and then you get some stupid cheat code that is really irrelevant since you've finished the game anyhow?

    that is the horn.
    Last edited by sarajean; 07-30-2007 at 03:35 PM. Reason: spelling was correct. no need for (sp?)s :D
    There's a fine line between stupid and clever.

    You can't really dust for vomit.

  17. #17
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  18. #18
    Nigel Tufnel Odetta has a spectacular aura about Odetta has a spectacular aura about Odetta has a spectacular aura about Odetta's Avatar

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    There's a fine line between stupid and clever.

    You can't really dust for vomit.

  19. #19
    Gunslinger Apprentice She-Oy is on a distinguished road She-Oy's Avatar

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    I voted with Matt and Odetta...but then again, I think the 3 of us were chatting about this very thing the other day and we all agreed then too.
    It's peanut butter jelly time!

  20. #20
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    I think that is the message King wanted to get out there. If you want salvation, cry off your obsessions that tend to ruin your life.

    Its not like the man never had any

    Obsessions I mean
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  21. #21
    Gunslinger Apprentice She-Oy is on a distinguished road She-Oy's Avatar

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    True.

    Funny thought...maybe if Roland would have just hooked up with a well hung black man, it would have quenched the thirst.
    It's peanut butter jelly time!

  22. #22
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt
    I think that is the message King wanted to get out there. If you want salvation, cry off your obsessions that tend to ruin your life.
    excuse me, isn't the story a little more complicated than that? On the one hand, it is obsession. On the other, it is saving the universe - nothing, I believe, to spit on. With saving lots of individual people (their very souls, not only their lives) into the bargain. And, true - the other side again - killing lots of individual people. All in all, the dialectic of the Dark Tower doesn't seem reducible to one single line.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  23. #23
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    Sure, but the tower was saved many moons before he actually got there.

    He could have cried off after Blue Heaven. The Tower was speaking through Sheemie--"all is well"
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  24. #24
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    1. yes... and once a certain pink crystal showed him that everything was well with a certain girl...

    2. Making him cry off after he actually saved the universe would seem gratuitously cruel, wouldn't it? Like saying to a child: you can have that candy after you clean your room, and after he actually does it, refuse him that candy on the pretext that it is bad for teeth and generally kids shouldn't be indulged.

    3. Finally, I thought that everything we could consider bad was done by him before Blue Heaven, not after? Is there something so very wrong about saving Sai King or Patrick? About erasing Crimson King from existence? Or would you feel comfortable with a dead insane wizard hanging about the Tower?

    In a word, we shouldn't forget that The DT isn't a moral pamphlet. It's awfully complicated stuff concerning all possible aspects of existence, and none of them should be disregarded when we discuss it.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  25. #25
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    If you feel that way, its cool with me. I believe the story has all kinds of different aspects but the moral is the same.

    Roland is doomed to repeat the loop because he cannot find it in himself to cry off. We can't re write history here, nothing mattered to him other than the tower. Right up to the last minute he wanted that tower like crack.

    As far as number two. Hell yeah I would deny the candy to the child if it was an obsession and had proven to be a bad road to take. But it doesn't really apply because no one promised Roland the tower

    I am not trying to over simplify the story but I do believe it holds a message about redemption and how people tend to self destruct themselves
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

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