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Thread: "Thee's a good man, Roland of Gilead." *SERIOUS spoilers*

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    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Default "Thee's a good man, Roland of Gilead." *SERIOUS spoilers*

    Rosa says it to Roland some days before the wolves come.
    I read this book before as well but this was the first time I had to stop for minutes at this line.
    Roland has never been told a good man before.
    I would like to ask you what you think Rosalita herself meant by it. And why did she say it?
    I think Rosa is a true-hearted woman and she is wise as well. She isn't a teenager girl in love... if she says something that's how she feels and she has good reasons.
    Did she really think Roland was a good man? Did she say it because she was so thankful? Somehow I feel saving the children wasn't the only reason for saying it. And she knew how much Roland was obsessed with the Tower.
    Last edited by Letti; 09-09-2009 at 09:52 PM.

    Roland would have understood.

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    thank you for bringing it up - it's one of my favorite moments, and one of the most important, too

    She says that because she sees him as a good man, and because he is a good man. I frankly don't know what else could be asked of him besides what he already is and what he has already done; if he isn't good, who the hell is?

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    *hugs Jean* It's good to know you feel the same way.
    Do you think it meant a lot to Roland? Or did he forget it quickly?

    Roland would have understood.

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    I think it meant everything to him. He had never even heard anything like that before, and if not for that fabulous woman, would never have heard it in the future, no matter what he did. I will have to re-read the New York (tet corporation) part, but as far as I remember, while appreciating him saving the world and all that, nobody guessed to say anything as simple as "you're a good man".

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    The way he reacted... it was so modest and silent. He didn't show at all how much it meant him. It's not so surprising, it's Roland.

    Roland would have understood.

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    Kate / Batwoman turtlex is on a distinguished road turtlex's Avatar

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    I don't think Roland forgets things, and I especially feel that he wouldn't have let this go.

    Roland is someone who accepts his own limitations, and this is such a heartfelt compliment, that it had to have meant something to him, so he'd not have just let it go.
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    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Did she really think Roland was a good man? Did she say it because she was so thankful? Somehow I feel saving the children wasn't the only reason for saying it. And she knew how much Roland was obsessed with the Tower.
    I think she really thought it, yes. Like you said she is a wise woman and saw goodness in him. I don't think she knew about his history and didn't know that sometimes Roland can be both good and bad.




    Quote Originally Posted by turtlex View Post
    I don't think Roland forgets things
    Except we know differently from early on in the series because the world is moving on, he does forget things. This I don't think he would forget altogether.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    Kate / Batwoman turtlex is on a distinguished road turtlex's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by turtlex View Post
    I don't think Roland forgets things
    Except we know differently from early on in the series because the world is moving on, he does forget things. This I don't think he would forget altogether.
    Excellent point.

    I guess I didn't mean "forget" but really sort of that is wasn't something he'd just let pass and put out of his mind.
    The Man In Black Fled Across The Desert...

    ...And The Gunslinger Followed.

    Im always on the Batman rule, sir. - Kate Kane / Detective Comics 857

    "It is the story, not he who tells it." Except to us collectors who have to put limits somewhere. - jhanic

    Remember, Remember, The Fifth of November, The Gunpowder, Treason, and Plot.

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    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    Except we know differently from early on in the series because the world is moving on, he does forget things.
    Yes, but he also says at some point something to the effect of "even the past is in motion" so maybe he doesn't forget moreso than what he might remember just didn't happen anymore in the now-altered past.

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    That's what I think, too. Certainly doesn't look like a forgetful type to me.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    Except we know differently from early on in the series because the world is moving on, he does forget things.
    Yes, but he also says at some point something to the effect of "even the past is in motion" so maybe he doesn't forget moreso than what he might remember just didn't happen anymore in the now-altered past.
    Yeah, good point Jayson. Gold star for you and a Scratch N' Sniff(tm) sticker.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    As it's coming from you, I hesitate to ask what the scent of the sticker might be.

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    Strawberry.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    I think she just said he's a good man cos he gave her lots of orgasms.

    "OOOOOOOOoooooooh! Thee's a good man Roland!
    Now, where's the cat sphincter oil, if it do ya?"

    Sorry, trust me to lower the tone...

    I think she told him he's a good man, first because she believes it, (what with his aiding the villagers and all), and because she is genuinely good at reading people. I think she also might have said it to remind him too. She must know there is a lot of darkness in him, and all gunslingers (remember how many of the villagers feared them as much as they welcomed their aid.) and I think maybe she recognized he was partly affected by his past too. (Sure he's a practical guy and seldom lives in the past but part of his hardness and apparent lack of feeling is due to the pain and deeds of the past.) Maybe it was her way of giving him a poke (not that kind of poke... ooh my dirty mind) and saying, "You're all right bucko."

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    Maybe she said he was a good man because he was a good man then, and he was at that time noble, and not sacrificing his friends for the tower? I couldn't see her calling him a good man during the whole drop-Jake-time period.

    As for him not saying anything, sure he was humbled by what she said, but maybe he couldn't say anything because also he didn't see himself that way. Somewhere in the mighty series, I will paraphrase, he says that he knew he would forsake all for the tower.

    I wish he had stopped then. She would have accepted him and they may have become happy if he could have forgotten the tower.

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    Banned The Lady of Shadows is on a distinguished road

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    i hate this thread.

    because the sad thing is, as i don my asbestos suit and prepared for the war, roland is not a good man. he's a rapist and a murderer. he's a child-killer and a myopic son-of-a-bitch who would willingly destroy everyone in his path to get what he wants, i.e. the tower.

    that doesn't mean i don't love him, but i see him for who he is. he is gifted, he is talented, he is alone, he is fearsome, he is brilliant, he is arrogant, he is lonely, he is sad, he is afraid, he is murderous, he is willful, he is myopic, he is stranded, he is pitiful. but he's not a good man. not yet. but he will be, someday he will be.
    Spoiler:
    and i think this cycle shows that day is coming soon.


    let the flaming begin.

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    Rabid Billybumbler ladysai has much to be proud of ladysai has much to be proud of ladysai has much to be proud of ladysai has much to be proud of ladysai has much to be proud of ladysai has much to be proud of ladysai has much to be proud of ladysai has much to be proud of ladysai's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by turtlesong View Post

    that doesn't mean i don't love him, but i see him for who he is. he is gifted, he is talented, he is alone, he is fearsome, he is brilliant, he is arrogant, he is lonely, he is sad, he is afraid, he is murderous, he is willful, he is myopic, he is stranded, he is pitiful. but he's not a good man. not yet. but he will be, someday he will be.
    Spoiler:
    and i think this cycle shows that day is coming soon.
    I totally agree.
    (although I cant remember him raping anyone...?)

    And the key to the whole shebang is what I bolded in turtlesong's quote.
    The man is working towards becoming good.
    He's headed there, but aint made it yet.

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    Here I go about to sound like Forrest Gump , because I think it is both.
    Rosalita seems to have an ability to see Roland for all he is, and love
    him all the more for it. Roland is as good as anyone in that he is on
    a path to wards himself, and what could be better than self realization
    while saving all of existence?

    The answer is within

    all matter is energy, all energy is GOD

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    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    As I don't believe in objective good or bad (or objective anything else for that matter) I'd say it's all a matter of perspective. From Rosa's perspective, he's a good man. He is standing up for the children (and the adults) of the Calla, risking his own life to fight the Wolves. To Rosa, these are the actions of a good man.

    I don't think it matters that we know more about Roland's past than she does. Her statement was reflective of her specific feelings about the Roland she knows, not an overall final judgment of his character based on every event since he left Gilead.

    Quote Originally Posted by ladysai
    (although I cant remember him raping anyone...?)
    I suspect ts is referring to what Roland did to Sylvia Pittson with his gun. I can certainly see where that can be interpreted as rape.

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    Interesting thread and discussion.

    Yes, Roland is a good man. A determined man can still be a good man. A good man can still make mistakes.

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    Rabid Billybumbler ladysai has much to be proud of ladysai has much to be proud of ladysai has much to be proud of ladysai has much to be proud of ladysai has much to be proud of ladysai has much to be proud of ladysai has much to be proud of ladysai has much to be proud of ladysai's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ladysai
    (although I cant remember him raping anyone...?)
    I suspect ts is referring to what Roland did to Sylvia Pittson with his gun. I can certainly see where that can be interpreted as rape.
    Ah.
    I forgot about that.
    (The Gunslinger is one book of the series I have seldom read.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by turtlesong View Post
    i hate this thread.

    because the sad thing is, as i don my asbestos suit and prepared for the war, roland is not a good man. he's a rapist and a murderer. he's a child-killer and a myopic son-of-a-bitch who would willingly destroy everyone in his path to get what he wants, i.e. the tower.

    that doesn't mean i don't love him, but i see him for who he is. he is gifted, he is talented, he is alone, he is fearsome, he is brilliant, he is arrogant, he is lonely, he is sad, he is afraid, he is murderous, he is willful, he is myopic, he is stranded, he is pitiful. but he's not a good man. not yet. but he will be, someday he will be.
    Spoiler:
    and i think this cycle shows that day is coming soon.


    let the flaming begin.
    As Jayson said, it's a matter of perspective, although I put different meaning in these words: unlike him, I, being a Christian, do believe in objective good and bad (and lots of other things objective, for that matter ), and that forms my perspective.

    A man, in this light, does not amount to the sum of his actions, and the soul is bigger than its state taken in every particular moment. We are not what we did, and we are not what we were yesterday; true repentance is a concept that is very easy to misunderstand and ridicule, but if there's a book where the meaning and the emotional constituent of repentance is made clear, it's the Dark Tower. If you remember how Roland felt about what he did, I don't know how you still can call him a child-killer (as for him being a rapist, I frankly don't know what is meant - my memory may fail me, though; as for him being a murderer - well, you might call so Joan of Arc, too, or any soldier). I hate the elitist, Ubermensch idea of gunslingers with all my heart, but all Roland was doing during the whole series was overcoming it in his soul. Once again: if he is not a good man, who the fuck is?

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Be careful with the spoilers, my friends.

    It's really interesting to read your feelings and opinions about this thing.
    There is one thing I would like to add: Rosa said what she said because she herself is a really good person. And she is open. I am sure she always tries to see the good side of the people and although she felt the darkness in Roland she knew very well that nobody was perfect on this Earth.
    We all have darkness inside the question is if we fight with it or give up and live with it.
    I think there were periods in Roland's life when he didn't mind the darkness inside him moreover he was happy with it because it made him feel more alive and it gave him energy to go on, for example to hunt the Man in Black.
    But during his long journey he realized how sick and rotten it ha made him inside and he started to fight with it. And it's a big thing.

    (By darkness I mean all the native feelings and features of the one.)

    Roland would have understood.

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    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Letti gives great thread.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    Numenorean ManOfWesternesse is on a distinguished road ManOfWesternesse's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    Letti gives great thread.
    <img src=http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z47/ManOfWesternesse/dt_bcBanner002d.jpg border=0 alt= />

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