A Clockwork Orange
Dazed & Confused
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
Dogma
I hope you don't mind if I reply to this, Jean.Originally Posted by Jean
In my opinion, what you describe is exactly what Kubrick was trying for. It's intentionally hypocritcal.
ETA :Brice zipped in on me while I was replying to the bear... I agree with this statement about the book, but I don't know if with the movie it was a celebration so much as an over-statement for the sake of the film.
I loved the book, too, by the way.
The Man In Black Fled Across The Desert...
...And The Gunslinger Followed.
“I’m always on the Batman rule, sir.” - Kate Kane / Detective Comics 857
"It is the story, not he who tells it." Except to us collectors who have to put limits somewhere. - jhanic
Remember, Remember, The Fifth of November, The Gunpowder, Treason, and Plot.
My last semi-off topic post, I promise! I'm just super-energized on it because of meeting Malcolm McDowell.
I see what you mean, but I thought that it underscored the idea of the conflict between freewill (Alex's choice to do evil) versus determinism (Alex being conditioned to do good and to be made ill by evil) as summed up by the prison chaplain's comment "Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose he ceases to be a man."
And yes yes yes on the language. I think the childishness in Nadsat is intentional, such as appy polly loggies and eggiweg, to name a few English examples.
We all know how I feel about that last chapter (awkward and inappropriate), too.
Back on topic, any comments on Dazed and Confused? I'm curious about its appeal because it seems like something I might like, but within minutes I'm bored to tears.
Last edited by Woofer; 10-23-2008 at 04:53 AM. Reason: A little more clarification.
It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
A whole lot more than riches and muscle.
The hands of the many must join as one.
And together we'll cross the river.
Puscifer, "The Humbling River"
You consider it to be a blight upon the english language?My last semi-off topic post, I promise!
I see what you mean, but I thought that it underscored the idea of the conflict between freewill (Alex's choice to do evil) versus determinism (Alex being conditioned to do good and to be made ill by evil) as summed up by the prison chaplain's comment "Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose he ceases to be a man."
We all know how I feel about that last chapter, too.
It is. Moreover, it is an attempt to show that the wicked Alex is the only one who is honest, while everyone else is pretending and lying, but in reality is ten time worse than him (parents, ordinary citizens, his former victims etc), which is a dirty cheap dangerous lie - very popular since The Catcher in the Rye, but cheap, dirty and dangerous nevertheless.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Read the book my friend.It is. Moreover, it is an attempt to show that the wicked Alex is the only one who is honest, while everyone else is pretending and lying, but in reality is ten time worse than him (parents, ordinary citizens, his former victims etc), which is a dirty cheap dangerous lie - very popular since The Catcher in the Rye, but cheap, dirty and dangerous nevertheless.
In all fairness though considering that Alex is the narrator from his own perspective through much of this story it is his reality. This changes later on.
I.... I... promised not to post, though... AUGH!You consider it to be a blight upon the english language?My last semi-off topic post, I promise!
I see what you mean, but I thought that it underscored the idea of the conflict between freewill (Alex's choice to do evil) versus determinism (Alex being conditioned to do good and to be made ill by evil) as summed up by the prison chaplain's comment "Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose he ceases to be a man."
We all know how I feel about that last chapter, too.
It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
A whole lot more than riches and muscle.
The hands of the many must join as one.
And together we'll cross the river.
Puscifer, "The Humbling River"
I actually had to think about this because I love both Clockwork Orange and Dogma
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I think Dazed and Confused really speaks to the exact people who grew up in that year.
It captures the tenure and speaks to that group same as American Graffitti speaks to the 50's era.
You kind of have to look past the stoner-ness of it all, and see if for the sweet-innocent-on-the-brink-of-adulthood sort of thing.
The Man In Black Fled Across The Desert...
...And The Gunslinger Followed.
“I’m always on the Batman rule, sir.” - Kate Kane / Detective Comics 857
"It is the story, not he who tells it." Except to us collectors who have to put limits somewhere. - jhanic
I haven't seen most of A Clockwork Orange, so I can't vote for it. Dogma's me choice.
you're solid gold // i'll see you in hell
I have a feeling Clockwork is going to go the distance.
"As for gunslingers, Roland," Cuthbert says, "I am here. And we are the last."
When two fit, it makes you think
I got the cute one, my woman
She says, "Lovin's all I bring"
And it's her loving that's a wonderful thing.
Lovin' yes we are, it's such a wonderful thing
When two fit it makes you think
See us both in the black
She lays on me so relaxed.
-Big D and The Kids Table
For the record (who is the secretary, by the way?), I also adore Dogma (even though I loathe Ben Affleck with every molecule in my body).
It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
A whole lot more than riches and muscle.
The hands of the many must join as one.
And together we'll cross the river.
Puscifer, "The Humbling River"
I liked Affleck in Dogma, I think he and Damon have great on screen chemistry.
I liked what Kevin got out of him in Dogma. I think it helps a lot that Damon and Affleck and Smith are RL friends. However, I have a deep and irrational loathing of Affleck and can simultaneously hate him and love what Kevin Smith got out of him for Dogma.
It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
A whole lot more than riches and muscle.
The hands of the many must join as one.
And together we'll cross the river.
Puscifer, "The Humbling River"
Really... Dogma... for best movie of all-time? I liked the movie but come on! In fact I do not think that any of these movies are quite up to that.
While I agree with the last sentence here I disagree with the first one. I know a number of people that like Dazed and Confused that were not even alive in the seventies. I think maybe it appeals more to people who grew up in a small towns; especially if they spent every weekend drinking beer and riding around town looking for a party to go to. BTW, this describes most everyone I grew up with.I think Dazed and Confused really speaks to the exact people who grew up in that year.
It captures the tenure and speaks to that group same as American Graffitti speaks to the 50's era.
You kind of have to look past the stoner-ness of it all, and see if for the sweet-innocent-on-the-brink-of-adulthood sort of thing.
Also, a lot of decent actors and actresses got their start on Dazed and Confused, including the above mentioned Ben Afleck.
But you see I do get all that. It just bores me.
It must be me.
It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
A whole lot more than riches and muscle.
The hands of the many must join as one.
And together we'll cross the river.
Puscifer, "The Humbling River"
RUBE - Excellent point about the small town aspect of DandC. I had overlooked it, but you're dead on there. Thanks.
Woofer - Well, I hated Fear and Loathing... so jump on the bus
The Man In Black Fled Across The Desert...
...And The Gunslinger Followed.
“I’m always on the Batman rule, sir.” - Kate Kane / Detective Comics 857
"It is the story, not he who tells it." Except to us collectors who have to put limits somewhere. - jhanic
*Return of the BUMP*
This poll closes tonight
A Clockwork Orange - oh yeah!
It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
A whole lot more than riches and muscle.
The hands of the many must join as one.
And together we'll cross the river.
Puscifer, "The Humbling River"
Wow, Dogma is way too close.
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Dogma is an excellent movie though and I won't be too sad if it wins, but I voted for Orange.
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I liked Dogma too, but not as much as the other films.
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