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Thread: Any one a Frank Herbert fan? Dune?

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    the new Mr. Amy Pond! Mordred Deschain is on a distinguished road Mordred Deschain's Avatar

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    Default Any one a Frank Herbert fan? Dune?

    I cry your pardon if this topic has already been posted.

    Dune is one of my top favorite books. I really like the story and how it continued. However, I think his son (Brian Herbert) and Kevin J. Anderson are making the new books ruint!

    Anyone else?


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    Sleep Controller ZoNeSeeK is on a distinguished road ZoNeSeeK's Avatar

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    Its also one of mine, i recently read the wiki synopsis of all books to refresh my memory as its been a while and as you know they become very convoluted in the last 2-3 or so:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_series

    I want to re-read them all again, and then read some of his son's work as i havent read any of that.
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    I LOVED Dune and couldn't get through the first chapter of any of the others...


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    Dune is another series that I got so indepth that I started using the language in the book. Started calling my work uniform my stilsuit, my pencil my crysnife, and up until I re-read the Dark Tower, when I refered to god I would say Shaitten, now I say Gan.
    Frank Herbert wrote I think 7 of them, then his son took over. His son meshed his own ideas into the series and pretty much has created a conundrum of unexplained events and more questions about the series than there ever was. It's kind of like the newer Star Wars movies (eps.1-3) with a lot of unanswered questions or things that just don't add up to eps. 4-6.


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    Mother of Dragons Erin will become famous soon enough Erin will become famous soon enough Erin's Avatar

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    You know, I don't know a bit about the Dune books, but know several people who are fans. What is the basic premise of the story?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    You know, I don't know a bit about the Dune books, but know several people who are fans. What is the basic premise of the story?
    Heh....Okay first, it is a sci-fi, and it has it's awards as one of the best sci-fi stories that were created. If you're not interested in the reading, rent the 1984 David Lynch movie (Dune) or the sci-fi channels Dune and Children of Dune. Neither do the book justice, but you will get the basic premis.

    It takes place, I think about 20,000 years in the future. The story is basically about a family (Great Houses kind of like kings and dukes and such) which has to move from their home planet to a desert planet (not unlike Tatooine from Star Wars). There's a plot by the emporer and another great house family to destroy the first mentioned family. The planet "Dune" or Arrakis has NO water. There are giant worms that the native people refer to as their god, or a form of their god. There's also a chemical substance called Melange or Spice, which elevates ones perception, has geriatrich purposes, and turns your eyes blue. This "spice" becomes a key role in the survival of the family that had to move to Dune. And actually, Wiki could probably explain it more. I don't know how to explain it without spoilers. The bigger part is how Frank Herbert wrote it. It's a very deep story with alot of hidden undertones. But, if you read it, I recommend the original by Frank Herbert and stay away from the books written by his son Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson. They did a lot of prequel stuff and it messes up the original story.


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    Sleep Controller ZoNeSeeK is on a distinguished road ZoNeSeeK's Avatar

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    The series is essentially about House Atreides and the Spice - this drug that is able to push humanity into further stages (its an interesting look at a possible future, you might say), and its also about how power amongst humanity moves and evolves and what factions vie for it. A well-known quote from the series is something like "He who controls Dune controls the Spice, and whoever controls the Spice controls the universe". The spice is singularly the most valuable commodity to have ever existed, and how it changes people and people's minds is explored further in the series. The spice is also crucial for the Spacing Guild (responsible for all long distance travel) guildmasters to pilot their frigates and ships through space-time over vast distances - without the spice, the universe grinds to a halt.

    Its got a nice blend of feudal style politics and insanely futuristic concepts (both technologically and in the way people are organised and society is structured). Frank Herbert has a very unique imagination. Once you get used to his encompassing style of writing (he tends to focus on individual powerful characters and events which they are directly involved in, but other events of massive magnitude he can introduce with an off-hand mention which can be confusing if you're not paying attention) it becomes very enjoyable - he doesn't stick to conventional methods I dont think.
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    the new Mr. Amy Pond! Mordred Deschain is on a distinguished road Mordred Deschain's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZoNeSeeK View Post
    The series is essentially about House Atreides and the Spice - this drug that is able to push humanity into further stages (its an interesting look at a possible future, you might say), and its also about how power amongst humanity moves and evolves and what factions vie for it. A well-known quote from the series is something like "He who controls Dune controls the Spice, and whoever controls the Spice controls the universe". The spice is singularly the most valuable commodity to have ever existed, and how it changes people and people's minds is explored further in the series. The spice is also crucial for the Spacing Guild (responsible for all long distance travel) guildmasters to pilot their frigates and ships through space-time over vast distances - without the spice, the universe grinds to a halt.

    Its got a nice blend of feudal style politics and insanely futuristic concepts (both technologically and in the way people are organised and society is structured). Frank Herbert has a very unique imagination. Once you get used to his encompassing style of writing (he tends to focus on individual powerful characters and events which they are directly involved in, but other events of massive magnitude he can introduce with an off-hand mention which can be confusing if you're not paying attention) it becomes very enjoyable - he doesn't stick to conventional methods I dont think.
    That was better than mine! You ever hear about the fight between Frank Herbert and George Lucas? Dealing with how much Tatooine is very much like the planet Dune (or Arrakis).


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    Sleep Controller ZoNeSeeK is on a distinguished road ZoNeSeeK's Avatar

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    Really?

    Was this after A New Hope was released?

    I dont know why Herbert would have gone mental about it - if there were sandworms on tattooine too then I could understand, but theres not.
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    Oh here we go - shit, theres alot more detail copied than i though - i think Lucas was trying to pay homage, to a degree. But fuck, if I was herbert and saw the last three movies that Lucas has released, i would go batshit at him aswell. Some of the detail is relative common sense, though.

    http://www.spookybug.com/origins/dune.html

    I used to like star wars, when it was the initial 3 movies that were actually done well. Fuck knows what happened with the more recent ones. The entire atmosphere and mood created in 4-6 was turned into bubblegum. These movies should have been far darker and more ominous than they were - perhaps it was the cute little droids with comical faces? Or jaja? Or the shithouse dawsons creek acting?
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    ZoNeSeek and Mordred: you're the greatest reviewers alive! You've managed to make Dune so much better than it was when I read it, that I actually want to re-read it now - and you gave all the essential stuff without a single spoiler!

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    Thanks guys Those were great reviews. I'm super excited to read the book now, it sounds quite intriguing. I'll have to check out the movie as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    Thanks guys Those were great reviews. I'm super excited to read the book now, it sounds quite intriguing. I'll have to check out the movie as well.

    There's a pretty good miniseries that sci-fi did as well(I like it anyway). I have it somewhere if you want to borrow it sometime, I can look for it.
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    There's one hole in every revolution, large or small. And it's one word long.. people. No matter how big the idea they all stand under, people are small and weak and cheap and frightened. It's people that kill every revolution.

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    the new Mr. Amy Pond! Mordred Deschain is on a distinguished road Mordred Deschain's Avatar

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    The mini-series is Dune and Children of Dune by the sci-fi network. the mini follows the book more. However, the 1984 David Lynch version is....well, it's David Lynch. Focuses more on the drug and trippie aspect of the "spice". The movie also has Sting in it as a main villian.

    The reason why Herbert was trying to sue Lucas, is more of a timing issue. He wrote Dune at about the same time Star Wars ep4 was done. Herbert believes(d) that Lucas stole his creative master piece. Tatooine and Dune are all desert. The moister collectors Luke has to repair are similiar to the ones in Dune (called wind traps). The desert people of Tatooine are silimiar to the Fremen in Dune. And Mos Isley (space port) is like the main city in Dune (Arrakeen).

    Hey thanks, I can't believe I've read Dune so many times and I feel like I failed in the explanation! I say Thankie-sai!



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    Yeah it is a hard series to explain .. and keep in mind the books don't follow conventional timing, the events of the last two are thousands of years past the events of the first three.

    Its a bold project, looking at humanity tens of thousands of years from today, and the resulting complexity of the series is warranted I think

    Ive got the complete dune encyclopedia at home, which is extremely handy to have when understanding the Dune universe. If you guys do end up reading it and have any queries I can look them up for you.

    The mini series and children of dune mini series are factual as the books go - the Lynch film is based on the Dune book, but much of it is different.

    An accurate remake could be done with todays CGI that would be amazing
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZoNeSeeK View Post
    Yeah it is a hard series to explain .. and keep in mind the books don't follow conventional timing, the events of the last two are thousands of years past the events of the first three.

    Its a bold project, looking at humanity tens of thousands of years from today, and the resulting complexity of the series is warranted I think

    Ive got the complete dune encyclopedia at home, which is extremely handy to have when understanding the Dune universe. If you guys do end up reading it and have any queries I can look them up for you.

    The mini series and children of dune mini series are factual as the books go - the Lynch film is based on the Dune book, but much of it is different.

    An accurate remake could be done with todays CGI that would be amazing
    Before I came onto this forum, I was all over 2 or 3 Dune forums. There's been talk of a new movie, but not sure if it's going to happen. I mean, Frank has entered the clearing at the end of his path and it's all on Brian Herbert's shoulders. A bunch of us hardcore dune fans are scared what might happen. However, like you said, with cgi the way it is now, should be pretty cool to re-do Dune.


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    YARP!
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    I've read and liked all the Dune books, both by FH and his son and Kevin Anderson. The way I look at them is that the first six written by FH are the cannon and the sequels/prequels are part of an expanded universe, not part of true cannon but close enough to pay attention to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyy3723a View Post
    I've read and liked all the Dune books, both by FH and his son and Kevin Anderson. The way I look at them is that the first six written by FH are the cannon and the sequels/prequels are part of an expanded universe, not part of true cannon but close enough to pay attention to.
    I say true! I agree. That's actually a good explanation.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordred Deschain View Post
    I cry your pardon if this topic has already been posted.

    Dune is one of my top favorite books. I really like the story and how it continued. However, I think his son (Brian Herbert) and Kevin J. Anderson are making the new books ruint!

    Anyone else?
    I wasn't gonna register here ... then I saw this thread. Now I've got a discussion I can jump right in to

    The first 6 of the series, IMO, were all masterpieces though some were better than others. Frank Herbert made a deep, complex universe with interesting characters and intricate political situations. It's not really "easy" reading at all, but it's *very* rewarding. You get involved with the main characters ... the heroes are vulnerable ... the villians are power-mad ... and the schemes are ... intricate. Like The Dark Tower, you love and you hate the characters.

    The prequels that Brian Herbert has been writing are ... well ... not that good. They're just caricatures of his father's work. The schemes are obvious ... the characters are your plain old "knight in shining armor" and the "villian in the black hat".

    The difference is there, but it's really subtle and leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Some of the prequels were interesting ... in that you got to see some of Frank's characters expanded upon ... but nothing really deep was added. It's like comparing the original 3 star wars movies to the new 3 ... something's different, and the original flavor is much better.

    I'm well & truly scared to see what Brian's going to do with the unwritten conclusion to the series ... Book 7 that his father died before getting a chance to pen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasagi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordred Deschain View Post
    I cry your pardon if this topic has already been posted.

    Dune is one of my top favorite books. I really like the story and how it continued. However, I think his son (Brian Herbert) and Kevin J. Anderson are making the new books ruint!

    Anyone else?
    I wasn't gonna register here ... then I saw this thread. Now I've got a discussion I can jump right in to

    The first 6 of the series, IMO, were all masterpieces though some were better than others. Frank Herbert made a deep, complex universe with interesting characters and intricate political situations. It's not really "easy" reading at all, but it's *very* rewarding. You get involved with the main characters ... the heroes are vulnerable ... the villians are power-mad ... and the schemes are ... intricate. Like The Dark Tower, you love and you hate the characters.

    The prequels that Brian Herbert has been writing are ... well ... not that good. They're just caricatures of his father's work. The schemes are obvious ... the characters are your plain old "knight in shining armor" and the "villian in the black hat".

    The difference is there, but it's really subtle and leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Some of the prequels were interesting ... in that you got to see some of Frank's characters expanded upon ... but nothing really deep was added. It's like comparing the original 3 star wars movies to the new 3 ... something's different, and the original flavor is much better.

    I'm well & truly scared to see what Brian's going to do with the unwritten conclusion to the series ... Book 7 that his father died before getting a chance to pen.
    Excellent description!! Frank always had plans within plans within plans. Sandworms comes out soon!! A bunch of us are trying to figure out how many characters from Brian's prequals will be involved in the last book.
    Waiting for Vorian Atreides to make a re-appearance.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    Thanks guys Those were great reviews. I'm super excited to read the book now, it sounds quite intriguing. I'll have to check out the movie as well.
    Dune is all about the politics. Ingrigues and schemes and plots between the powers that be. Here's my synopsis:

    Coming into Dune, the government is split into 3 factions:

    1) The emperor - the commander-in-chief of the universe. Think G-Dubya with a gay haircut. He rules the most feared military force in the universe ... crossing the Emperor is usually a bad idea. Not only will he align other forces against you, but then he'll send in his Sardaukar Troops.

    2) The Landsraad - A group of the major "houses" ... which are mostly planetary governments. Think Congress in the US. The people you read about are mostly the rulers of a few houses in the Landsraad. The main 2 in Dune are House Atreides (good guys) and House Harkonnen (bad guys) who have feuded for as long as anybody can remember.

    3) The Spacing Guild - The group that has a monopoly on space travel. Picture Microsoft on steroids. If you want to go to another planet ... only the guild can get you there. To cover the vast distance between stars, they teleport huge starships from one place to another ... called "folding space". They need huge amounts of "Spice", called Melange to do it. Thus ... spice is the #1 commodity of the universe. Without spice, travel dies and the universe falls back to the stone ages. Spice comes from 1 planet: Arrakis aka Dune.

    Dune - desert planet in the middle of nowhere, that's the ONLY place that spice comes from. Home to sandworms that like to eat big things ... and protect the spice ... picture a freight train with a hungry mouth burrowing underground. Also home to the Fremen ... a group of native humans who are basically desert nomads.

    It gets complex fast ... and I'm only scratching the surface of setting up the scene. There's so many other things that go on that I can't even get into it ... schemes that are a "feint within a feint within a feint" ... and then you have to figure that the course of the 6 book series covers about 5000 years. Seriously ... I think it's between books 3 & 4 that thousands of years literally pass by.

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    ya, it's between Children of Dune and God Emporer of Dune where thousands of years pass. And thousands of years pass between God Emporer and Heretics of Dune. The whole Thousand sons of Idaho and the followers of Sheanna. http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...esticker08.jpg


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    I am a big fan of the original Frank Herbert Dune series. Fantastic, deeply beautiful, and insightful works, imo.

    I gave up on the Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson books a while back. I thought they were interesting enough, but not nearly as well written as the originals. And I have some personal opinions about how Brian has handled having the rights to his father's notes. I've been frustrated for years that he won't allow a reprinting of the Dune Encyclopedia because it wasn't something Frank Herbert wrote. And his afterwords in the books just struck me as somewhat spoiled and childish. As if being Franks son made him the BIG expert on Dune and he was doing all us readers a favor by writing the new books. He seems to claim to be a Dune purist, wanting to preserve his father's works and ideas, but in his books he inserts pieces from the original movie that never appeared in his father's books (such as the heart plug). Maybe I'm just biased against Brian, but the new books that I did read left me rather disappointed.

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