Originally Posted by BeDaN
Adumbros: living in three-, four-, or more-dimensional world is a matter of personal choice.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fair 'nuff.
I agree completely with this Matt, as well as what you said in your earlier post. I don't think my commitment to my wife would be any less had we not gotten legally married, but there are obvious legal ramifications to our doing so.
It is why I feel so strongly that homosexual couples should have the same rights to legally marry as heterosexuals. A loving committed relationship is a loving committed relationship regardless of the genders of those involved, and everyone deserves the exact same legal protections.
The issue gets clouded when people start involving their religious beliefs, but nobody is suggesting any church should be forced to perform a gay marriage, only that the government (which is supposed to be blind to religious issues) should recognize the rights of partners in any marriage.
I agree on all points, up one side and down the other.
I can't imagine being in a long term homosexual relationship, having something terrible happen to one of the partners and then not being allowed into the hospital room
Horrific!
I think Jean was only saying that he realizes it's only a symbol of the commitment , but for him (personally) the symbol is an important one.i kinda contest that, personally...
as a Marine, people often wonder why i don't take more offense to things such as civilian government buildings, i.e. city hall, the post office, flying the flag at night or in inclement weather. sure, it irks me, but only because i was taught to be irked by it. Nowadays it doesn't bother me so much, for several reasons:
1)what the hell can i do about it?
2)do you really expect civilian authorities to be as knowledgeable about such things as those under federal employ?
3)as blasphemous as it may seem to some, it's a red-and-blue dyed rag. anybody can make one. firebombing the statue of liberty would piss me off; we only have one, and it likely could not be duplicated to full scale. it's nothing more than a piece of cloth that certain people choose to place a value on. I'm far more concerned with someone nuking a populated area, i.e., 9/11/01, than i am with someone mistreating an object that most Christians would consider heathen in nature. Hell, as far as that goes, I agree. Too many treat the flag the same way too many treat the Pope: with a reverence that should be reserved only for God.
symbols only have value when value is placed upon them.
Personally, I agree with him. To my thinking it's as a little bauble. It serves no true purpose, but it can still be a beautiful thing.
hallelujah!I agree completely with this Matt, as well as what you said in your earlier post. I don't think my commitment to my wife would be any less had we not gotten legally married, but there are obvious legal ramifications to our doing so.
It is why I feel so strongly that homosexual couples should have the same rights to legally marry as heterosexuals. A loving committed relationship is a loving committed relationship regardless of the genders of those involved, and everyone deserves the exact same legal protections.
The issue gets clouded when people start involving their religious beliefs, but nobody is suggesting any church should be forced to perform a gay marriage, only that the government (which is supposed to be blind to religious issues) should recognize the rights of partners in any marriage.
anyone remember "separation of church and state"?
yeah same here. i think if you wanna get married, get married. and many other "christians" ride me for this, but two things:
first of all, i'm no christian. think what you want on that.
secondly, for all those christians who claim that it's a sin to be gay/lesbian, how about THIS (another one for the cherry-pickers):
thou shalt not judge, for judgment is the sole province of the LORD.
oh, i got no problem with it. just stating my own opinion, which is really all this thread is about. and trying my best to respond to as many posts as possible as well, as i honestly did not expect this topic to get so hot so fast.I think Jean was only saying that he realizes it's only a symbol of the commitment , but for him (personally) the symbol is an important one.i kinda contest that, personally...
as a Marine, people often wonder why i don't take more offense to things such as civilian government buildings, i.e. city hall, the post office, flying the flag at night or in inclement weather. sure, it irks me, but only because i was taught to be irked by it. Nowadays it doesn't bother me so much, for several reasons:
1)what the hell can i do about it?
2)do you really expect civilian authorities to be as knowledgeable about such things as those under federal employ?
3)as blasphemous as it may seem to some, it's a red-and-blue dyed rag. anybody can make one. firebombing the statue of liberty would piss me off; we only have one, and it likely could not be duplicated to full scale. it's nothing more than a piece of cloth that certain people choose to place a value on. I'm far more concerned with someone nuking a populated area, i.e., 9/11/01, than i am with someone mistreating an object that most Christians would consider heathen in nature. Hell, as far as that goes, I agree. Too many treat the flag the same way too many treat the Pope: with a reverence that should be reserved only for God.
symbols only have value when value is placed upon them.
I actually said that symbols are much more than the objects that serve as symbols... much more than pieces of cloth or metal or paper, or meaningless words you speak with intention to break them... but seeing this "more" or not seeing it is a matter of personal choice.
I think marriage nowadays really makes sense only to those who see the invisible. Not necessarily believe in, say, Christian God... but for whom the world has more dimensions than one, two, three, or even four.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My mistake.
While we definitely don't believe in the same invisible things in some ways I could also agree with that I think.
indubitably.
No. Marriage is not necessary for commitment. Commitment IS necessary for a lasting relationship/marriage.
I was committed to my wife long before we got married. Now I just need to be committed.
Margaret Emmie Mackey Catoe, you are, have been, and always will be my soulmate, and I love you.
Con todo mi corazon, por todo de mis dias. And I always will, in this life and into the next.
August 2, 1947 - September 24, 2010
we all do Sam.
Not me, I'm totally committed to my sweetie pie. In fact, I can't wait to see her again right this very second.
but...but...i thought you loved me, mattykins!
This is pretty much how I feel on the subject of good reasons to get married.
Having said that, been there, done that, probably won't do it again. I've been in a 7+ year relationship with an absolutely terrific man, and not only are we not married, we don't live together, either (which is probably why we're still together). I am no more or less committed to him than I would be if I married him, and the only reason I could ever see us getting married is for one or more of the reasons Matt stated. Yes, something bad could happen to one of us and the other would have no say about anything, but the other side to that coin is that if one of us dies or is incapacitated, the other doesn't have to deal with the estate, etc. I think it's a risk/reward thing that you have to make up your own mind about. And, you can draw up enough legal papers to cover yourself if you want to, without being married. So there are ways around it, but it's much easier to just tie the knot, if you're really only looking at the legal rights and responsibilities of marriage.
"People, especially children, aren't measured by their IQ. What's important about them is whether they're good or bad, and these children are bad." ~ Alan Bernard
"You needn't die happy when your day comes, but you must die satisfied, for you have lived your life from beginning to end and ka is always served." ~ Roland Deschain
Well said. Lots of people don't take marriage seriously because if it doesn't work out, they can divorce. Which is a very stupid idea, considering how much trouble divorces cause for everyone.
I read a book (A Walk Down the Aisle, I think it was called) in which the author said marriage means more now, because it is optional. Before, you had to get married because of economics or societal pressures. Now it's not really considered a big deal, so you can do what you want, but that's why it's a stronger symbol of commitment. The author was getting married after a seven year relationship in which they already lived together for about five years.
I personally am pro-marriage, but I'm not going to get all crazy on people who aren't.
marriage=solitary confinement with someone who may or may not drive you nuts
Speaking of marriage, I think that if I marry a guy, he cheats on me and gives me an incurable disease, that I should end up with severance pay and he should have to pay for all my medical bills because I never asked him to cheat on me... especially with my libido!!
Like aids, com'on, that's a death sentence! If someone knows they have a disease and give somebody else said disease, don't you think they should maybe get intentional manslaughter?? That's a loaded weapon there!!!
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For some people i understand marrige is necicary for religion.
In any other case it makes no differance, it appeals to the couple themselves and what they decide.
If you love me, then love me-Susan of mejis
See the turtle, aint he keen? All things serve the fucking beam-Eddie of NewYork
You burn prettily-Corwin of Amber
Personally i don't think marriage is necessary for commitment. I think that someday, if i ever "fell in love" that it would be sweet to get married. But in no way do i find it necessary to 'prove' your commitment for someone. I think it can be proven on it's own say if your with someone for a few years. It can also be proven in the 'small things' that your significant one.[ at leeast that applies for me]
As had been said in this thread a few times already, it is more important to some people for a variety of reasons. They might have just been brought up that way, a little untrusting, or it might have something to do with religion or cultral background.
The words written upon this paper, are none compared to the words written upon my heart
Speaking of marriage, I think that if I marry a guy, he cheats on me and gives me an incurable disease, that I should end up with severance pay and he should have to pay for all my medical bills because I never asked him to cheat on me... especially with my libido!!
Like aids, com'on, that's a death sentence! If someone knows they have a disease and give somebody else said disease, don't you think they should maybe get intentional manslaughter?? That's a loaded weapon there!!!
personally, i feel it should be murder. shit such as "manslaughter" and different "degrees" of homicide i don't believe in. the only distinction i draw is between intentional and negligent homicide, and even in the case of negligent homicide, if a lethal weapon was used, or the defendant had prior existing knowledge of the potential fatality of their act, then it should still be considered intentional. (like this guy in my area recently, he shot a kid with a shotgun that was tryin to rob his place of business. his excuse was that he wasn't aiming for the kid; it was meant as a warning shot. the very fact he has such poor aim should qualify him for criminal negligence, and the homicide should be intentional, because in order to hit the kid, he had to be aiming in his general direction. aiming in the sky does not blow a hole in someone's chest unless he's swinging from a fucking tree. ergo, i say let the shooter hang for intentional malicious homicide.)
...but that, of course, is not we're here to discuss. i do find infidelity legit reason to divorce. and to receive half of the estate, as per law. however, were you to contract an STD, i think that should be jacked to 75% (call the extra fee "punitive"), because anyone who fucks around knows damn well the risk s/he is taking, and if they don't know whether they caught an STD or not, it's their own damn fault for not getting a checkup after the 56th partner in a 3-week span.
I believe if they have knowledge of a disease and they knowingly withhold the information, by law they are responsible for the consequences that you face. I remember hearing a few news stories of people who were prosecuted for knowingly having the AIDS virus and passing it onto others.
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