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Thread: It - Let's Discuss! *SPOILERS*

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    Gunslinger Apprentice Chassit is on a distinguished road Chassit's Avatar

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    :radioactive: It - Let's Discuss! *SPOILERS*

    I have been wondering this for a bit...is there not a version of the "Turtle Poem" that is recited somewhere in the novel "It"? If so does anyone remember it?


    XIX
    "See the TURTLE of enormous girth,
    On his shell he holds the earth.
    If you want to run and play,
    Come along the BEAM today."

    NFA JJG 42-95

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    Ubersnob Frunobulax is on a distinguished road Frunobulax's Avatar

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    I cannot remember it verbatim, but I do believe there is mention of Maturin as a 'turtle of enormous girth.' I might be wrong, though.
    My favorite bands can kick your favorite bands' asses.

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    Gunslinger Apprentice Steve will become famous soon enough Steve's Avatar

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    No poem in "It."

    "I aim to misbehave."
    -- Malcolm Reynolds

    "I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
    -- Hoban Washburne

    "What does that make us?"
    "Big damn heroes, sir."
    "Ain't we just."
    -- Malcolm Reynolds and Zoe Washburne

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    Ubersnob Frunobulax is on a distinguished road Frunobulax's Avatar

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    Thanks, Steve. It's been a while since I read IT.
    My favorite bands can kick your favorite bands' asses.

    The horizon is right and motionless like the EKG of a dying woman.

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    Gunslinger Apprentice Steve will become famous soon enough Steve's Avatar

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    Unless you count "The Turtle couldn't help us."

    "I aim to misbehave."
    -- Malcolm Reynolds

    "I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
    -- Hoban Washburne

    "What does that make us?"
    "Big damn heroes, sir."
    "Ain't we just."
    -- Malcolm Reynolds and Zoe Washburne

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    Ubersnob Frunobulax is on a distinguished road Frunobulax's Avatar

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    Well, that's as close as it would get--and that ain't close.
    My favorite bands can kick your favorite bands' asses.

    The horizon is right and motionless like the EKG of a dying woman.

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    Sleep Controller ZoNeSeeK is on a distinguished road ZoNeSeeK's Avatar

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    Hang on - there's a section in It like a narrative mythology which talks about the turtle at the dawn of time. Its referenced here in Wikipedia (Ill mark it as a spoiler as this information is not revealed in It until towards the end, also some DT7 stuff in it too):

    Spoiler:

    It apparently originated in a void containing and surrounding the Universe, a place referred to in the novel as the Macroverse. Its real name (if indeed It has one) is unknown — although at several points in the novel, It claims its true name to be Robert Gray — and is christened It by the group of children who later confront it. Likewise, its true form is never seen. Its final form in the physical realm is that of an enormous spider, but even this is an illusion. Its true form exists in a realm beyond the physical, where It refers to Itself as "the deadlights." Bill comes dangerously close to seeing the deadlights, but successfully defeats It before this happens. As such, the deadlights are never seen, and Its true form is never revealed. Coming face to face with the deadlights drives any living being instantly insane (a common H.P. Lovecraft device).

    Its natural enemy is "The Turtle," another ancient Macroverse dweller who, eons ago, vomited up our Universe and possibly others while having a bout of indigestion. The Turtle shows up again in King's own series The Dark Tower. The book suggests that It, along with the Turtle, are themselves creations of a separate, omnipotent creator referred to as "the Other". As it is stated that the Turtle and It (the Spider) are eternal enemies (creation versus consumption), it is entirely possible that Pennywise is/was one of the 'Demons' that existed along the Beams, such as the creature who impregnated Susanna Dean in the Tower series; further consideration is lent to it by the name and form of the beast (as well as the constant capital 'S' in Spider, much as there is a capital 'T' in Turtle.)

    It itself may also appear directly in The Dark Tower series, as 'Joe Collins' of Odd's Lane. His modus operandi, that of inciting strong emotions and feeding off of them, is similar to that of It, and when Joe Collins is exposed by Susannah, King describes his transformation as into "a psychotic clown' before Collins changes into a form that looks something like a spider. Also, Collins refers to the malfunctioning robot who maintains the area around his house as "Stuttering Bill," and we find out later that Collins ordered Bill the robot not to repair the stutter, possibly for the purpose of making his name an inside joke.
    "You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think." - Duma Key
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    Gunslinger Apprentice Ruki is on a distinguished road

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    this has nothing to do with the turtle but this is the only It thread here so far

    i had a thought about pennywise when reading the second dt comic, it's a little out of nowhere and i'm probably way off but i still like the idea.

    i'm curious about whether pennywise and dandelo were the half siblings of the crimson king. i remember reading somewhere that sk says they aren't the same creature, but they're so similar that i feel like they must be related somehow. the spider aspect of both of them makes me think of the crimson queen, the crimson king, and mordred. feeding off of their victim's emotions could be a trait passed down from their father.

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    Sleep Controller ZoNeSeeK is on a distinguished road ZoNeSeeK's Avatar

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    Im not sure if theres any information that indicates they are familial, but the spider shape definitely links them closely. It could just be a species thing?
    "You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think." - Duma Key
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    Gunslinger Apprentice Ruki is on a distinguished road

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    i'm positive there's no info that says they're related, it's just a thought i had. if the crimson queen was the oldest of the great ones and for a while all they did was fuck and multiply i'm curious if that whole species started with her.

    the only problem i have with this idea is that i really don't see dandelo as being a deadlights kinda dude.

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    Sleep Controller ZoNeSeeK is on a distinguished road ZoNeSeeK's Avatar

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    Like me!

    *HEADLIGHTS*

    oh, you said deadlights
    "You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think." - Duma Key
    zoneseek@thedarktower.com

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    Gunslinger Apprentice Ruki is on a distinguished road

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    did you just show me your tits?

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    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

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    I feel like I just walked in on something...or was it a free for all?
    *honks at Zone*

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    Ubersnob Frunobulax is on a distinguished road Frunobulax's Avatar

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    There's the theory that the King, Dandelo, and IT are all of the same species and that Dandelo is one of the eggs that escaped death at the feet of the Loser's Club.
    My favorite bands can kick your favorite bands' asses.

    The horizon is right and motionless like the EKG of a dying woman.

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    Gunslinger Apprentice Chassit is on a distinguished road Chassit's Avatar

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    Thanks for the input guys...when I get a chance I'll put some of my own thoughts up on this heheh


    XIX
    "See the TURTLE of enormous girth,
    On his shell he holds the earth.
    If you want to run and play,
    Come along the BEAM today."

    NFA JJG 42-95

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    Sleep Controller ZoNeSeeK is on a distinguished road ZoNeSeeK's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruki View Post
    did you just show me your tits?
    Nope, but it does have something to do with enormous girth.
    "You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think." - Duma Key
    zoneseek@thedarktower.com

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    Gunslinger Apprentice Ruki is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZoNeSeeK View Post
    Nope, but it does have something to do with enormous girth.



    Quote Originally Posted by Frunobulax View Post
    There's the theory that the King, Dandelo, and IT are all of the same species and that Dandelo is one of the eggs that escaped death at the feet of the Loser's Club.
    that makes more sense than my ramblings

    so is It one of the great ones? that's the theory i'm leaning toward today, and i think that would make It the ck's uncle since the great ones are all siblings.

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    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    I like where this is going. The idea that they could all be "kin" somehow is very appealing to me.
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    Ubersnob Frunobulax is on a distinguished road Frunobulax's Avatar

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    IT is one of the Great Ones--immortal, primal, and Prim-bound. The Crimson King is like this strange Prim-being that melded with the Line of Eld, which makes sense figuring how much ol' Arthur got around. And Dandelo takes the form of a clown during his death, w favourite of IT. He's also an empathic vampire, which would make it more than apparent that he's a son (if they have sexes) of IT.
    My favorite bands can kick your favorite bands' asses.

    The horizon is right and motionless like the EKG of a dying woman.

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    Gunslinger Apprentice Ruki is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frunobulax View Post
    IT is one of the Great Ones--immortal, primal, and Prim-bound. The Crimson King is like this strange Prim-being that melded with the Line of Eld, which makes sense figuring how much ol' Arthur got around. And Dandelo takes the form of a clown during his death, w favourite of IT. He's also an empathic vampire, which would make it more than apparent that he's a son (if they have sexes) of IT.
    yeah i was figuring It would have to be a great one once i started remembering more of the story. i've only gotten all the way through the book twice and the second time doesn't count because i was so distracted while listening to it.

    the crimson king is the son of the crimson queen (the oldest of the great ones) and arthur eld.

    and yeah, i think you're probably right about dandelo. it's the only explanation that makes sense of his nature and his knowledge of It.

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    Sleep Controller ZoNeSeeK is on a distinguished road ZoNeSeeK's Avatar

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    How does Flagg fit in with this family do you reckon?
    "You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think." - Duma Key
    zoneseek@thedarktower.com

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    Ubersnob Frunobulax is on a distinguished road Frunobulax's Avatar

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    Flagg is a semi-Eternal being, so he fits in as sharing some qualities of IT. He also probably knows well of Derry and its territories.
    My favorite bands can kick your favorite bands' asses.

    The horizon is right and motionless like the EKG of a dying woman.

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    Gunslinger Apprentice Ruki is on a distinguished road

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    apparently flagg started out as some regular farmboy in delain. i have no clue how he ended up being this big badass. he says people mistook him for maerlyn, i've wondered if maybe mearlyn was his mentor or something but i have no reason to think that. i've also wondered how the hell being raped led to him being all evil. i know it can turn ya mean but damn. could he maybe have been raped by maerlyn and somehow gotten his power through that? that's a totally stupid thought isn't it?

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    Ubersnob Frunobulax is on a distinguished road Frunobulax's Avatar

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    Well, I think his rape led to his thirst for revenge.
    My favorite bands can kick your favorite bands' asses.

    The horizon is right and motionless like the EKG of a dying woman.

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    Gunslinger Apprentice Ruki is on a distinguished road

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    makes sense, i just wish i knew more of the story. he's such a damn mystery to me. every time i start to think i have something figured out i realize that theory doesn't work. like, at one point i was convinced he hopped from body to body, at the end of the stand he woke up in another him (a twinner in another world) but that doesn't explain him as marten being his own buddy walter in gilead or being able to be a big black bird. dammit i wanna understand it all!!!

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