As I have said I am with Matt that he must cry off the obsession. Now it's even clearer in my mind how it could happen or it's the only way I can imagine it happening.
Roland does reach the Tower but he doesn't enter. I know it sounds impossible but there must be a point when Roland realises his job is over when he sees the Dark Tower at the horizon.
Roland would have understood.
I know I've asked this a million times before, but I may as well ask it again... if Roland cries off and the CK is at the Tower and Mordred is on his way, what happens next? Perhaps if Roland cries off after disposing of the CK and Mordred then the crying off could be the End, but if he leaves them alive then what would stop them from bringing down the Tower and ending everything? Dunno.
I don't think they can bring down the Tower at all. CK gets a prisoner on the balcony forever and Mordred dies alone somewhere no one can see him. It's just a sudden version that came to my mind but I do think they cannot destroy the Tower. Not even together.
Roland would have understood.
That's certainly possible Letti.
I just think it's equally possible that without opposition Mordred could make it to the Tower. What if Roland never went to Dandelo's house and Mordred ate him (Dandelo, not Roland) instead of his infected horse? Dandelo would have been a good meal for Mordred and made him quite powerful. Then Mordred gets to the Tower and frees Big Red and then...?
Of course there's no way we can know one way or the other but it's sure fun to think about.
I think Mordred was damned from the very beginning. He was so lost in the world... he didn't belong to anyone. I am not sure at all that he would have freed the CK. Certainly we can have just guesses about these questions.Originally Posted by R_of_G
That's certainly possible Letti.
I just think it's equally possible that without opposition Mordred could make it to the Tower. What if Roland never went to Dandelo's house and Mordred ate him (Dandelo, not Roland) instead of his infected horse? Dandelo would have been a good meal for Mordred and made him quite powerful. Then Mordred gets to the Tower and frees Big Red and then...?
Of course there's no way we can know one way or the other but it's sure fun to think about.
And as I have written I think Roland can give up the Tower just in front of it.
Roland would have understood.
Definitely possible, and I agree, we have no idea what Mordred would do in a situation like that.
Maybe the top of the tower is a double sided reward/punishment of looking into ka and seeing one's place there. It is a split second of "knowing". Personal knowledge being the sum of our experiences, the top of the tower is the top of all things, a place outside of time. The top of the tower is truly absolution. To be united with ka for only one second allows you to see where you are in it and be given the tools to change the outcome (within certain parameters where the tools never really have the instruction manuals with them). However, ka acts much like the "be careful what you wish for" irony of most Twilight Zone episodes. Ka shows you what is, not the ideal of what you want, and this is why Roland has repeated his quest so many times. I believe the line of Eld is about upholding the idea of serving the "justice" of ka for the will of the White. Roland, in that sense, has forgotten the face of his father, because he is serving his desire. The tower is represented by different symbols on different worlds, because it is, in itself is a symbol. For many the end of the quest and their ultimate reward is the very thing that Roland sees as punishment: a second chance. Those that come to the tower with the true artifact of the Line of Eld (selflessness) will be allowed to enter and given the REWARD of repeating their life or the choice to look at all of their decisions on the way up and live out the rest of their days with the knowledge that they saved the tower and were conscious enough of their soul and the weight of love to save everything that they cared about. It is never about saving the dark tower. It is about saving the facilitator of life.
This has been the closest that Roland has ever been to either wanting to repeat his life or having the wisdom to not "have to know" if he himself has not "absolved" the remainder of his sins. If Jake and Eddie and Oy had lived (probably through an alternate chain of events based on Roland's decisions) Roland might venture to the top to repeat their adventure out of free will. They might all go given the opportunity to relive the feeling of being "ka-tet" for the first time, or in Eddie and Susannah's case: falling in love for the first time. Jake would know his true father (again for the first time).
The horn is another symbol. It is a symbol of growth. It is with Roland now because the Roland that reached the top this time WOULD have picked the horn up. That latent thread exists now because of Roland's growth and this is the thread he is able to exist in when ka returns him to the desert. Roland does not have to relive the events preceeding it, he's simply able to access this thread now. This thread exists because of Roland's growth...just my two cents...sorry for the ramble...
i think he is supposed to break the loop, by not sacrificing all his tet for the tower. i think he is supposed to make the realisation that the tower can never be attained and he needs to love the people he is with. the horn is part of this - in that one small difference will have a future knock on effect with future decisions, and this next story may mark the end of the loop, because he has the horn as a reminder of people that lost their lives for his quest.
that just me though,
I totally agree with you candy. Crying off is the key to Roland's redemption.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
I think he either will see all his friends like in the poem or nothing at all because it's all too much for a human's mind to comprehend.
Roland will wake up in a dark bedroom on the floor, go towards a room with lights on and see RANDALL FLAGG COMING OUT OF THE SHOWER! IT WAS ALL A DREAM!!!
ha ha ha outdated dallas references, I slay myself
if the worlds gonna end then let's get it over with, i got shit to do
My only problem with this is the Tower calling Roland's name. If that's the key, then God hates Roland and he's better off not entering the clearing.
I honestly think King just needed a way to end it... the horn isn't even mentioned until Wolves of the Calla and this whole obsession thing is barely mentioned until DT 7. If it was a leitmotif then it would have more singularity. I think Browning's poem has to do with realizing your damnation just by existing, and maybe Roland's obsessiveness makes him more aware than other humans because he does reach the nexus of existence, which is symbolized by a dark tower and a vindictive god.
No, writing papers on Franz Kafka has had no effect on me at all the past couple of weeks.
Wasn't the prophecy that he got to the top and he would rule over the prim or something? I can't remember exactly
Well said Ryan. People wonder why I think Buddhism and existentialism are essentially the same thing. That statement could represent either one.
"realizing your damnation just by existing" wouldn't fare so well if it was a blurb on the back of a modern translation of the Tao Te Ching.Well said Ryan. People wonder why I think Buddhism and existentialism are essentially the same thing. That statement could represent either one.
I get your point, though, and I tend to agree. That being said, I'm much more versed in existentialists than Buddhists.
People wonder... Bears don't.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When my academic pursuits dictated that I started reading large amounts of both in the same period, I began to see that they were essentially using the same metaphors.
Of course not.People wonder... Bears don't.
"Death, but not for you gunslinger."......i usually don't do this but----*SLAP*. I hope you aren't in the creative writing field.I always saw roland opening that door for the final time and seeing...
Pillars and sheets of thick clouds, his lost friends and loved ones floating amongst them; and a bright white light shining from behind them. They would all step foreward and welcome him to the clearing at the end of his path. He would then look up to see a huge intricate turtle floating above them all.
Go figure.
I think death is the most likely choice(but then he could choose to end the cycle whenever he wants). However, there is also the possibility of Roland becoming completely non-existent in life, death, heaven, hell--whatever.
I wouldn't mind seeing the door opening on the New York where the rest of his ka-tet resides(with the takuro spirit and nozz-ala).
This is my blog/page:
www.facebook.com/thespermwhaleandbowlofpetunias
This is my donation page:
https://www.razoo.com/br/causes/Maje...h-Resorption-1
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
Before I finished the series, I always imagined Roland finding the Tower, climbing to the top and (i don't know quite how to put it), becoming some kind of ruler/ guardian of the Tower and sitting in the top room for eternity. The picture that kept going through my head was Roland sitting in some large stone chair, kind of like Arnold Schwarzenegger (sp?) at the end of Conan the Destroyer . . . sitting on his throne, waiting, ruling.
But now that I have finished it . . . I don't know. I agree with some people on here, that maybe he'll find the clearing at the end of the path. To finally be allowed to rest. Maybe even a little more dramatic than that . . . Maybe God or Gan, in this case . . . maybe even Arthur Eld, will welcome him into the Kingdom of Heaven and thank him for the work he has done. Yeah, I kinda like that.
Are sins ever forgiven?
For those who loved this world... and knew friendly company therein. This Reunion is for you.
http://www.zazzle.com/Kidd_Ikarus*
I think the horn is the major key. I think Roland is supposed to complete his quest and reach the top with the horn. Then, his salvation will be the clearing at the end of the path . . . hopefully Heaven . . . hopefully a clearing where he can meet up with those he loved and lost.
How can Roland cry off the Tower? How would he be able to, when the loop brings him back to the beginning and wipes his memory. The obsession would be just as strong and as powerful as it was when the obsession brought him to the desert in the first place. I think it says something like . . . "Everytime will be just like the first time . . . It will be the first time, for him" . . . Or something along those lines. He has to make it to the top or else he will never do it right.
That's what I'm thinkin anyways.
For those who loved this world... and knew friendly company therein. This Reunion is for you.
http://www.zazzle.com/Kidd_Ikarus*
Kidd Ikarus' writing somehow suddenly reminded me of King Arthur's final resting place, Ynys Witrin, in the Isle of Avalon, where, according to the legend, he is sleeping and awaiting for the time when world will need him again. My mind works in strange ways.
But I love Letti's and Kidd's thoughts. :adore: <3
"...neither the stupid jokes nor the easy surface emotions were the truth of Cuthbert Allgood."
Like Feanor waiting in the Halls of Mandos.
Thankee Lily-sai!
For those who loved this world... and knew friendly company therein. This Reunion is for you.
http://www.zazzle.com/Kidd_Ikarus*
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
