The Official End Thread

[Letti]

But even if you don't never forget that it was about the journey and not about the end.

Very true, but what bothered me was similar to what another poster said: It was as if King hit the reset button. POOF, all that journey gone.

No way! Why would it be gone? The journey didn't end.. that's all. Nor for Roland. I don't think this time everything will be the same. If Roland can change enough he will be able to get out of this spiral. He needs to learn a lot of things but I think he is improving all the time and he is on the right way to save his soul.

[Brainslinger]

But even if you don't never forget that it was about the journey and not about the end.

Very true, but what bothered me was similar to what another poster said: It was as if King hit the reset button. POOF, all that journey gone.

I would have felt the same way I think... but the return of the horn (oo-er) made it ok for me. Besides, I like to think that the events of each loop are very similar with just minor changes along the way. So all the accomplishments of Roland and his Ka-tet will happen again, with a bit more added if that makes sense.

[Rambo, John J]

As a sometime writer and avid bookreader, i've an overactive imagination, sometimes more than is good for me. Candy's (from these boards) sig quote encapsulates me to a T - 'The imaginative reader knows that story doesn't end when the book closes.'

I consider DT to be the best - not just book, - but story I have ever come across. I%

[alinda]

Well John, your not alone there! Welcome to the site, I know ypur going to love it as much as we do.

[sarah]

Hi Rambo, John J. Welcome to the site. Check out these two threads. You might find them interesting.

Happy posting...

[Rambo, John J]

Thats weird, my original post should have read some thing like this!:

As a sometime writer and avid bookreader, i've an overactive imagination, sometimes more than is good for me. Candy's (from these boards) sig quote encapsulates me to a T - 'The imaginative reader knows that story doesn't end when the book closes.'

I consider DT to be the best - not just book, - but story I have ever come across. I have no idea why, perhaps its because its been a part of my life for longer than any other story, who knows. It crosses all genres, fulfils, subverts and idealises many tropes (in a non-cliche) way and - after my initial shock at the end of Wolves of the Calla, Has the best instance of breaking the forth wall ever. I don't think i've read a story before or since where the writer has dared to do this with such aplomb. And its King's acknowledgement and lampshading of his own fate (or ka if you will) in being part of the story, his own helplessness - coupled with his clearly inherent understanding of the nature of stories and of storytelling - that allowed him to get away with the deux ex towards the end of Dark Tower.

All of which is a roundabout way of me saying... I don't know how it ends.

At a certain point, King tells the reader to 'stop reading', and I stopped. The story for me ended at that point. I have no desire to know what lies within the dark Tower or what Roland will find at the top. For me, (and I only realise this while typing now) it was always about the journey.

Am I the only one or are there other crazy folken out there like me who are the same?

Marty

[sandcracker21]

I have one further thought about the ending of the series. When Rolland is 'tugged' back in time to be doomed to repeat his quest over, it is sugested that he has made it to the Dark Tower many times, and has been shoved back many times.

Why do you think he is being 'punished' like this? is it for sacrificing Jake in book 1?

Also, this has been killing me, each time he gets 'shoved' back to the beginning, does time rest itself? Because throughout the series people seem shocked to see a gunslinger from Gilead and say "Gilead has been gone for thousands of years, you can not be from there!" ...so it would makes sence that time has continued to move forward despite Rolland 'reseting'.

HOWEVER, he sees Sheb from his time in Mejis while in book 1, and Sheb is still alive and well?

[blaine]

i personally felt that time 'resetting' was implied, but also i think its mentioned that small things can change rolands fate , i can't remember the exact quote but the horn of eld is mentioned.

It's also possible that he is crossing to a new dimension each time and saving that particular one, and he will never be done.

[sandcracker21]

It's also possible that he is crossing to a new dimension each time and saving that particular one, and he will never be done.

hmmm i have never thought of that....that it would seem he is starting the "last dimension" since he starts out with his horn the last time...meaning Jerico hill went differently, which means anything after it (the entire story) could be changed....

interesting...

[blaine]

i think at its heart its a great ending as it means many different things to many different people.
and can mean different things to people depending on thier outlook on life at that time.
also doesnt it kind of inspire you to write your own ending to rolands tale in your head. even if its subconcious.

[Anjerith]

To be short but sweet; I felt that I should have taken King's warning to stop reading prior to the Epilogue to heart. As the last line of the book has pretty much cursed me to always wonder if the Gunslinger will ever find peace, among the hundreds of other things that you must wonder about at the end (if you don't stop with that beautifully sweet scene of Roland's Lost Ka-Tet finding some peace together).

[dagwood]

It was as if someone had died. Not just a family member or friend, but an actual part of me. I felt like there was a void in my life for a couple weeks...its not something one can explain to anyone who hasen't experienced it first hand

[blaine]

i smiled because it was perfect :-)

[osseolax28]

I agree with Blaine about saving the other dimensions and also with the post above. Some people hate the way the series ended, but i believe the only reason they hate it is because people want things their own way because their selfish, they dont think about the bigger picture. With Roland being pulled back or being pulled to another universe is just Ka's way of keeping The Tower safe and making sure it will not fall.

i think it even says that rolands line of family are knights or protectors of The Tower in SOS or WOTC, so it kind of forshadows Rolands fate. but know im just rambling and have goten off topic

[osseolax28]

So you stopped at that stopping point and have never read psat? Thats kinda cool ive never heard anyone do that.

[blaine]

john i can heartily recommend the ending , after all it is part of the book and part of the story, and it was for me the best part of the series :-)

[LadyHitchhiker]

Wow. I HAD to finish it. Maybe I should have stopped when he said!

[sandcracker21]

if it wasnt for rolland meeting sheb for the second time in tull...i would definatly say the was being sent 'back' each and everytime but erased memory but the that was NOT resting itself, that in fact, rolland was sort of immortal because of it...

i believe that walter tells rolland in the expanded 1st book that he is damned from the start (perhaps from sacrificing jake?) and hints that he has been through this conversation before

[Jean]

Wow. I HAD to finish it. Maybe I should have stopped when he said!

No, not if you are an honest reader. When a reader starts reading a book, it's a sort of covenant between him and the author; the reader, of course, can break it at any moment, for the reasons like loss of the book, death, the book being boring etc; keeping the covenant, however, means reading the book through, till the end.

And the end of the book is where the text stops - the last line, followed by no more text other than "Acknowledgements" and the like. It remains so, no matter what the author says or does, whatever silly or clever games he is trying to play with the reader, and however ingenuously he tempts the reader to stop. These are all the author's devices, his tricks, his mysterious unaccountable ways along which he has chosen to write his book; all responsibility for this is entirely his.

Ours is to keep our end of the covenant, and to read the book through, till the last line after which there's nothing more to read.

[Goblin]

Am I the only one that kind of wishes I hadn't read to the end?

[Brice]

Stopping for me where King says to would have been inconcievable. I didn't make a choice to continue. It was just already set in motion and there was no stopping. I still haven't stopped reading it.

[Rambo, John J]

Wow. I HAD to finish it. Maybe I should have stopped when he said!

No, not if you are an honest reader. When a reader starts reading a book, it's a sort of covenant between him and the author; the reader, of course, can break it at any moment, for the reasons like loss of the book, death, the book being boring etc; keeping the covenant, however, means reading the book through, till the end.

And the end of the book is where the text stops - the last line, followed by no more text other than "Acknowledgements" and the like. It remains so, no matter what the author says or does, whatever silly or clever games he is trying to play with the reader, and however ingenuously he tempts the reader to stop. These are all the author's devices, his tricks, his mysterious unaccountable ways along which he has chosen to write his book; all responsibility for this is entirely his.

Ours is to keep our end of the covenant, and to read the book through, till the last line after which there's nothing more to read.

Any other writer and i'd probably agree with you Jean. But King himself has described this series as his opus. He knows how much it means to his fans and readers, and he has the utmost of respect for us - that much is clear through his arguments at the start of each installment, his anecdotes of people who ask him about the Tower, and his 'constant reader' term of affection. He likes us. He wants to do us proud. He needs to.

Moreover King in his introductions, arguments and acknowledgments sections (not to mention his various non-fiction essays) displays that he knows and understands the nature of stories and storytelling. Hasn't he said himself that he sees stories as already existing artefacts with writers as 'archeaologists' uncovering these pristine works, word by word? And by extension, that he is not, and has never been, fully 'responsible' for the end product. As he says 'blame any [patches of sloppy writing/ lax moments] on whatever got lost in the translation.'

For that reason, I don't see him 'playing games' or trying to tempt us to stop reading. I think he was afraid deep down that he couldn't do the end justice, that no matter what the ending was, it would never measure up to the ideals and expectations of us, his constant readers. Not just that, I suspect he may also have been afraid of 'uncovering the story' incorrectly (to go with the archaeology theme) and in so doing, do the story itself a disservice.

But as a writer (and storyteller), he was compelled to finish it to, as you say, the last line, come what may.

I'm not quite sure if you're deliberately insulting me by insinuating that i'm somehow 'dishonest' by not reading to the last word, or perhaps i'm just being overly sensitive, (being honest is a big part of who I am) but irregardless, I don't see there being some sort of 'unbreakable' covenant or agreement between the writer and reader, other than the covenant 'I will agree to give you money/ time/ attention in return for entertainment'; and the reader has the right to set the book down at any time without somehow feeling like they've broken some sort of mystical bond. (Although that gives me an idea for a story.)

I enjoy reading your posts Jean, and a lot of what you write has inspired me to take up the pen and paper once again, but on this, I think you and I have different views on stories and storytelling.


And blaine, say thankya for the recommendation. I do intend on reading the end at some point (i'm in the middle of series reread right now) but for the time being i'm happy with breaking off where I did.

[Jean]

Insult you – God forbid, it’s all the matter of my wrong (as often happens) word choice; the natural antonym to “honest” does seem to be “dishonest”, but, as God is my witness, I didn’t imagine you in this - antonymous - position; also, I am afraid, the core word itself was wrong, and I still fail to find any better. Not really an “honest” reader, no, but someone who identifies with his reading to the point of starting an additional life every time he opens a new book; thus, it would be as futile for him to try to escape these fatal words, “the end”, as it would be for us to expect to cheat death indefinitely.

Especially when a book is Opus Magnum, the crown achievement and the big total of an author’s life, and especially if the book is so essentially intricate as TDT is.

I already bored everyone by saying it over and over, but I will say it again because I feel it is true – the Dark Tower saga is a simulation of the multiverse on many levels, and being essentially complex entails being formally convoluted; that’s why using the words “games” and “tricks” in any derogative way was the farthest thing from my mind. He makes the world for us, and he makes us live in it; at tmes he plays with us as God sometimes does, and Devil does all the time.

It is human to pray for the cup to be taken away. It is understandable to want to escape death at least this one time, - only it is there anyway, and no life is complete without this final period mark.

In this case King himself made this prayer of the chalice for us – it was his way of warning that Golgotha lies ahead. I am sure King wasn’t disappointed by what he wrote; nor was he afraid of disappointing his reader. He was warning that the last pages would be incredibly hard for the reader, as they – I believe – were for the writer; he was giving us illusion of choice, of a possibility of slipping out through back door; but he knew that ultimately there was no such thing as escape, and if he drank the cup, we, his readers, wouldn't shirk drinking it with him.


(I do so hope that the above - however incoherent - has at least in some way shown that our understanding of stories and storytelling is not really so different... )

[blaine]

it is the perfect ending and thats all i will say. ;-) and i would love to hear your take on it john, if one day you choose to read it.

[Jean]

it is the perfect ending and thats all i will say. ;-) and i would love to hear your take on it john, if one day you choose to read it.

hear, hear!