The Official End Thread

[jayson]

yeah well my dad says the loops are different and my dad is BIG!

[fernandito]

He will remember nothing else. Will the horn really change anything?

You don't know this for sure. What if his blindness in his obsession is lessened because of the events in the loop that we read about have changed him inside? Couldn't the Horn of Eld be a symbol of that? I think it is.

Yes!

I believe that the horn signifies that something has changed within Roland; it may be subtle and/or infinitesimal, but something definitely has changed.

[ATG]

We'll see whenever Sai King gets around to finishing the series.

[MonteGss]

We'll see whenever Sai King gets around to finishing the series.

[Wuducynn]

We'll see whenever Sai King gets around to finishing the series.

Hello in there ATG...what color is the sky in your world?

[Odetta]

I think ATG is making a point here... I take it you feel a little, ahem... "unimpressed" by King's ending?

[Wuducynn]

No, he's already stated in another thread that he believes King is going to make nineteen books in the series...or something like that.

[Odetta]

oh... aren't there already 19 books connected, tho? Wasn't that the point?

[Wuducynn]

*shrugs* I think its a bunch of hooey personally...a bunch of giant cockey-doody hooey....and a half.

[Odetta]

well, that's what I heard, anyway.

[Wuducynn]

Well I was meaning the idea that he isn't done with the series.

[Brice]

Well I was meaning the idea that he isn't done with the series.

So...you don't believe there will be another dozen DT books?

[Odetta]

Well I was meaning the idea that he isn't done with the series.

So...you don't believe there will be another dozen DT books?

oh, god! I hope not!

[Wuducynn]

*shrugs* I think its a bunch of hooey personally...a bunch of giant cockey-doody hooey....and a half.

So...you don't believe there will be another dozen DT books?

Where did you get that idea?

[aurora]

My thought is that yes the Tower and the beams are real to everyone in the multi-verse. The Tower is both Gan and the beams which are extensions of Gan as well as machinery which was an attempt to replace the magic of the prim. Gan is not dying but technology is. Its the technology of the beams that are faltering and their eventual death leaves a wake of lack of magic and technology leading to chaos everywhere. Gan however would still be around in some form as well the existence of the Prim as wherever they actually went. Plus don't forget that in 'IT' the turtle was more then just machine it was Prim.

So now back to the question of Roland. What was Roland really after? Save the Tower? I don't think Gan would die if the beams all break, He may not stand as the Tower anymore but still he'd exist. So is it for Roland to save Gan? Or is it Roland, hire of Arthur Eld seeking to save the inhabitants of the Multi-Verse. Or has Roland been stuck in the loop at least several times and he's really seeking to save himself?

Me personally I think its a bit of each of the above. I believe that Rolands tiredness and pains towards the end of the quest are a result of some light dawning in him that he is failing himself as well as the people around him. He desires to be and do more then he has and yet seems lost as to why and how he is failing. He knows on the one hand he must save everyone so the loss of one is minor to the loss of the multi-verse. Yet its the loss of the one, the ones he knows and loves that torment him. He does not, can not know the infinite masses of the multi-verse how can he love them? How can he save the multi-verse if he can't save those that are close to him?

I think that the lack of the Horn of Eld is key to Rolands internal problem. He left the Horn with Cuthbert, one he loved dearly as a token of his love. Yet not having the Horn at the end means he can't open his love to the Multi-verse and thus he fails the multi-verse. Until Roland can find away to reconcile the loss of his friends as acts of their own quest and not a complete result of Rolands lack of abiltiy to save all, he will never climb the Tower successfully. In other words Roland traps Roland in the loop facilitated by Gan. People places and times are all the same, Roland is essentially the same therefore his choices vary little from loop to loop. Yet the simplest change may cascade into massive changes throughout his loop.

For example what if Roland kept the Horn of Eld? Would he not be tempted to use it in later battles? If so would that alert attention that was not there before and thus cause damage or success in ways not found in other loops? What if the entire Ka-Tet save Roland ended up dead in the Calla because Roland blew the Horn? Or what if only Jake and or Eddie died? He'd still fail because he lost the ones he loved. What is on the other hand he saved all and did indeed have the Horn of Eld, would he still open the top door and end his quest. No, I doubt it. Roland has not resolved his conflict he just managed to avoid it. I'm sure Gan would find away to makes sure that the conflict arises regardless of the fact he saved the ones he loved and had the Horn. For instance he still is a Gunslinger killing, well a lot, to save a faltering world. Those closest are saved but not all can be saved, there will always be loss. there will always be Walter, The Crimson King, Mordred, Los', thus always loss of some sort.

For me I think that Roland will endlessly wander the loops which he creates in his own mind which is facilitated by the sprite of Gan in the Tower. Why? Because its impossible for Roland to grasp the infinite of the multi-verse and how can you love something beyond your grasp to comprehend enough to reconcile the loss of those you do know and love?

[Odetta]

very well written, aurora

[Recker]

To me there is no doubt that the Dark Tower is a curse for anyone who tries to discover its secret. Roland was cursed to relive the same quest over and over and it’s unlikely that anything will ever change. He will make the same mistakes time and time again and follow the same path.

The same applies to the reader and I think this is a very clever thing on King’s part. If we the reader wish to continue reading about Roland the only thing we can do is go back to the very first book and start all over again. So if you like, the curse of the Dark Tower is also on the reader. We suffer the same fate as Roland.

I think it was a very appropriate ending. Like any book, the reader can only read it again. They can’t go on and read new adventures, because there won’t be any. It’s rather ironic, really when you think about it.

[fernandito]

Well, perhaps after every loop that Roland goes through he 'learns' something new and gains something new (i.e the horn), so you can't say that every adventure/loop will be exactly the same.

[Kyonn]

To me there is no doubt that the Dark Tower is a curse for anyone who tries to discover its secret. Roland was cursed to relive the same quest over and over and it’s unlikely that anything will ever change. He will make the same mistakes time and time again and follow the same path.

The same applies to the reader and I think this is a very clever thing on King’s part. If we the reader wish to continue reading about Roland the only thing we can do is go back to the very first book and start all over again. So if you like, the curse of the Dark Tower is also on the reader. We suffer the same fate as Roland.

I think it was a very appropriate ending. Like any book, the reader can only read it again. They can’t go on and read new adventures, because there won’t be any. It’s rather ironic, really when you think about it.

I still slightly disagree.

I don't think he's cursed for simply seeking the Tower but for the relentless way he pursued his quest and the choices he made along the way. Like choosing duty and the Tower over the life of his true love, being so relentless that he wouldn't even pause a few seconds to pick up his horn that meant so much to him and worse of all letting a 12 year boy fall to his death.

Those are the things that cursed Roland.

And seeing as he did paused to pick up the horn this time through the cycle that applies that Roland can change, even its only a small amount at a time, and eventually he may "get it right" and break the cruse.

[Brice]

To me there is no doubt that the Dark Tower is a curse for anyone who tries to discover its secret. Roland was cursed to relive the same quest over and over and it’s unlikely that anything will ever change. He will make the same mistakes time and time again and follow the same path.

The same applies to the reader and I think this is a very clever thing on King’s part. If we the reader wish to continue reading about Roland the only thing we can do is go back to the very first book and start all over again. So if you like, the curse of the Dark Tower is also on the reader. We suffer the same fate as Roland.

I think it was a very appropriate ending. Like any book, the reader can only read it again. They can’t go on and read new adventures, because there won’t be any. It’s rather ironic, really when you think about it.

I still slightly disagree.

I don't think he's cursed for simply seeking the Tower but for the relentless way he pursued his quest and the choices he made along the way. Like choosing duty and the Tower over the life of his true love, being so relentless that he wouldn't even pause a few seconds to pick up his horn that meant so much to him and worse of all letting a 12 year boy fall to his death.

Those are the things that cursed Roland.

And seeing as he did paused to pick up the horn this time through the cycle that applies that Roland can change, even its only a small amount at a time, and eventually he may "get it right" and break the cruse.

Well, if him choosing the tower over Susan or not picking up the horn were mistakes to be corrected he'd start the loop at an earlier point in time wouldn't he?

[Kyonn]

To me there is no doubt that the Dark Tower is a curse for anyone who tries to discover its secret. Roland was cursed to relive the same quest over and over and it’s unlikely that anything will ever change. He will make the same mistakes time and time again and follow the same path.

The same applies to the reader and I think this is a very clever thing on King’s part. If we the reader wish to continue reading about Roland the only thing we can do is go back to the very first book and start all over again. So if you like, the curse of the Dark Tower is also on the reader. We suffer the same fate as Roland.

I think it was a very appropriate ending. Like any book, the reader can only read it again. They can’t go on and read new adventures, because there won’t be any. It’s rather ironic, really when you think about it.

I still slightly disagree.

I don't think he's cursed for simply seeking the Tower but for the relentless way he pursued his quest and the choices he made along the way. Like choosing duty and the Tower over the life of his true love, being so relentless that he wouldn't even pause a few seconds to pick up his horn that meant so much to him and worse of all letting a 12 year boy fall to his death.

Those are the things that cursed Roland.

And seeing as he did paused to pick up the horn this time through the cycle that applies that Roland can change, even its only a small amount at a time, and eventually he may "get it right" and break the cruse.

Well, if him choosing the tower over Susan or not picking up the horn were mistakes to be corrected he'd start the loop at an earlier point in time wouldn't he?

Just because King shows us Roland in the desert doesn't mean he started back over there. In fact have the Horn implies that he did not.

We first meet Roland in the desert but we know his quest did not began there, that's just where King decides to start the tale and I think this cycle is no different. Personally I believe that Rolands lives his whole life over or at least from the point when he first exited the wizards glass and started his quest for the tower.

[sarah]

Just because King shows us Roland in the desert doesn't mean he started back over there. In fact have the Horn implies that he did not.

We first meet Roland in the desert but we know his quest did not began there, that's just where King decides to start the tale and I think this cycle is no different. Personally I believe that Rolands lives his whole life over or at least from the point when he first exited the wizards glass and started his quest for the tower.

Thanks for this post. I never thought of it that way but it makes total sense. Just because King has him in the desert in the loop doesn't mean he started over there. Just because he opened the door to the desert doesn't mean he was really starting there. Interesting theory. I'm in the middle of rereading DT7 (I have the dreaded readers block at the moment) but I will hopefully have fresh insight upon finishing this reread.

[MonteGss]

Just because King shows us Roland in the desert doesn't mean he started back over there. In fact have the Horn implies that he did not.

We first meet Roland in the desert but we know his quest did not began there, that's just where King decides to start the tale and I think this cycle is no different. Personally I believe that Rolands lives his whole life over or at least from the point when he first exited the wizards glass and started his quest for the tower.

Thanks for this post. I never thought of it that way but it makes total sense. Just because King has him in the desert in the loop doesn't mean he started over there. Just because he opened the door to the desert doesn't mean he was really starting there. Interesting theory. I'm in the middle of rereading DT7 (I have the dreaded readers block at the moment) but I will hopefully have fresh insight upon finishing this reread.

Well just before Roland enters his last door, the book states (thru Roland) that he does go into the desert each time and for a specific reason too.

[Matt]

My co worker to me in the middle of her first read of the 3rd book.

"is the Tower just a euphemism for obsession?"

wow!

I told her I didn't know and its the truth.

[Wuducynn]

My co worker to me in the middle of her first read of the 3rd book.

"is the Tower just a euphemism for obsession?"

wow!

I told her I didn't know and its the truth.

Thats definitely one of those "Get to the end and you'll have to make up your own mind" things. For me, I don't think ANYTHING in the Dark Tower series is euphemistic or purely symbolic. I don't think King writes that way, the Tower is the lynch pin of the worlds and Gan himself. Not symbolic of anything necessarily.