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Thread: Calvin's letter *main spoilers*

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    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    :radioactive: Calvin's letter *main spoilers*

    You know the one with Roland's name in it.

    After Eddie saves Calvin's bacon from Balazar's men they are having some good coffee, they are talking about book and Calvin comes up with this letter (from his great-great-grandfather) he has always kept in a safe and there is a damn old piece of paper in it with Roland's name on it.
    So...
    how could Calvin's great-great-granddad know about Roland? Why did he write such a letter? Did he know that his son would be visited by gunslingers once?
    How?
    How?
    How
    And again how?

    Roland would have understood.

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    Banned The Lady of Shadows is on a distinguished road

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    my guess? calvin's grandfather knew roland's grandfather. probably thru a door. i don't believe for a second that all this trouble only started with farson. or with walter. i think there was trouble brewing in different shapes and sizes for a lot longer than that. after all, look what happened to king arthur. . . .

    i think that roland's grandfather knew things would continue to go badly, in bits and pieces (or dribs and drabs as stu redman's mother would have said). nothing really noticeable but small things over time can become massive - put enough pebbles in the same place in a river and over time you create an impenetrable dam.

    so that's my take. their families were intertwined for long and long. so calvin's grandfather knew roland's grandfather and maybe roland's father because he was probably a baby at the time. he told calvin's father, who passed the envelope along to calvin, and obviously language but not much else. since it was steven's name calvin had, it wasn't prescience or anything. just inevitability.

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    I noticed from a recent re read that
    Spoiler:
    Eddie and Jake (in the Susannah in New York epilogue) have Toren as a last name.
    (DT7 spoiler)
    Last edited by Letti; 07-20-2008 at 09:34 PM. Reason: adding a spoiler tag

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    Banned The Lady of Shadows is on a distinguished road

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    i'm wondering if that will be addressed in the comics. since i haven't read any of them (despite being encouraged to by so very many people) i don't know what's going on it that world
    Spoiler:
    (other than :gasp: that whole king arthur thing)
    .

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    Palaver Castle Chef mia/susannah is on a distinguished road mia/susannah's Avatar

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    That is a good question Letti. Sometimes I wish I could think as deep as you do. maybe it is kinda like turtlesong said, Calvin's grandfather must have known Rolands grandfather somehow

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    Great topic Letti! That's one thing that bugged me about SOS (I actually mentioned it in the Q&Q thread come to think of it, so it's great it has it's own thread.)


    My theories:

    Before viewing the spoiler areas, be warned it includes big spoilers for later books.

    Theory 1: The letter was there simply because the
    Spoiler:
    Writer sent it there, much like when he sent the note to Jake in SoS. Since Stephen King appears in the cycle I figured it was worth mentioning. Eddie and Roland theorize he sent the key to the parking Lot, although I personally prefer the idea that the Rose did that, being an incarnation of the Tower after all. (Of course they're correct in an indirect way since Stephen King writes the books, but I was thinking of a more direct intervention of the Writer.)


    I don't subscribe to that view though, primarily
    Spoiler:
    because of what King says in Song of Susannah. He stated that he has 'mail rights' but he can only do it once. He actually did it twice, but the second was earned via certain actions that occurred later.


    Theory 2:
    Spoiler:
    Roland or a member of his ka-tet might have actually written the letter themselves during a previous loop and left it with Calvin's ancestor. Think about it, if there are no do overs in the keystone earth, is it possible that previous loops intersect with the past of the keystone world? To put it another way, when Roland and co crossed through the various doors into the keystone earth, could they have entered it during the times of the old west?

    Whilst I like the mind bending nature of that theory, it is way too complex and leaves to questions: How did Roland of the previous loop become aware of the loop in his previous iteration, before he reached Tower and the final door? How did he become aware that his future self might arrive there? Was he just being careful, much like when Eddie set up the Tet corporation, despite not being directly involved in it's activities? I'm sure there are other questions, but that'll do for now.


    Theory 3:
    The Tower/Gan/Beam itself sent the note there. I disagree with that, as I think the Tower requires people and tools to facilitate it's will (if it has a will in that sense, which I think it does), and whilst it could do such a thing I don't think it would. That and it's an awful plot device. I accept the Rose coughing up the key
    Spoiler:
    and later the bag
    simply because the items were near the Rose, and that whole scene had a wonderful magical tone to it, but not just dumping objects anywhere in time and space.

    Theory 4:
    I think the most likely theory is what Turtlesong said, there has been communication between the Deschain and Toren families in the past. It also fits better with Calvin's
    Spoiler:
    knowledge of that language... whatever it was. (Another mystery that wasn't answered in SoS although many believe it was the High Speech.)

    Quote Originally Posted by obucurejude
    I noticed from a recent re read that Eddie and Jake (in the Susannah in New York epilogue) have Toren as a last name.
    Yes, they had the role of the Rose's caretaker(s) in that world, much as Calvin does in the Keystone world. I liked that little twist.

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    I thought it was interesting that when asked by Tower, Eddie said it was either Roland's name or Stephen's I just figured that the gunslingers were already coming up with ways to protect the Tower, maybe with the help of the Manni or Vannay? I wouldn't put anything past the hierarchy of Gilead.

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    And then we have
    Spoiler:
    Eddie/Cuthbert turning up to save young King. I wonder if that supports the 'previous iteration' theory I mentioned above, or if it was an actual adventure Cuthbert had in the old days apart from Roland? A separate topic to Calvin's letter true, (and I'm not suggesting we deviate from that here.) but it supports the idea of interaction between the worlds in days past.

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    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    *hugs mia/susannah* Thinking deep? I think as deep as a puddle after the light summer rain.

    Brainslinger, I really like your post. It's absolutely fascinating.

    Anyway a new theory has just come to my mind.
    Calvin's great-great-granddad might have dreamt of Gilead and Roland... might have seen other worlds in his dreams because of the rose. Like Calvin.
    Calvin says to Eddie that he does dream of that vacant lot quite a lot but Eddie feels Calvin keeps his secret as well.
    So Tower's great-great-granddad wanted to be sure if that gunslinger he had dreamt of ever visited his world would get any help he would need from his family.

    Roland would have understood.

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    Numenorean ManOfWesternesse is on a distinguished road ManOfWesternesse's Avatar

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    It has always been 'clear' in my mind that Tower's Great-great-grandfather had the letter directly from Steven's father. But was there any direct hint of that in the Books? (I thought there was).
    Ah well, I'll have to read them again & see *bother*


    Brainslinger, what's this..
    Spoiler:
    Eddie/Cuthbert turning up to save young King.

    ... is this more comic 'new-cannon'? Dunno if I'm fond of such.
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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManOfWesternesse View Post
    It has always been 'clear' in my mind that Tower's Great-great-grandfather had the letter directly from Steven's father. But was there any direct hint of that in the Books? (I thought there was).
    Ah well, I'll have to read them again & see *bother*


    Brainslinger, what's this..
    Spoiler:
    Eddie/Cuthbert turning up to save young King.

    ... is this more comic 'new-cannon'? Dunno if I'm fond of such.
    Brian,

    In Song of Susannah, Roland hypnotizes King and King tells them that Eddie/Cuthbert showed up and saved him from some red spiders when he was a child.

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    Numenorean ManOfWesternesse is on a distinguished road ManOfWesternesse's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by obscurejude View Post
    Brian,

    In Song of Susannah, Roland hypnotizes King and King tells them that Eddie/Cuthbert showed up and saved him from some red spiders when he was a child.
    EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!
    Thanks obscure.
    The old brain-cells are degenerating more rapidly than I'd planned for!
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    Yes, I just finished rereading that part...the little red spiders were in the chickens and Stephen couldn't leave until he'd sawed enough wood as punishment for running away. His brother Dave had already sawed his share.

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManOfWesternesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by obscurejude View Post
    Brian,

    In Song of Susannah, Roland hypnotizes King and King tells them that Eddie/Cuthbert showed up and saved him from some red spiders when he was a child.
    EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!
    Thanks obscure.
    The old brain-cells are degenerating more rapidly than I'd planned for!
    No problem sir. Its easy to skip over because it doesn't make any sense.

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    Servant of Gan Brainslinger will become famous soon enough Brainslinger will become famous soon enough Brainslinger's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by obscurejude View Post
    In Song of Susannah, Roland hypnotizes King and King tells them that Eddie/Cuthbert showed up and saved him from some red spiders when he was a child.
    Yes, that's the bit I mean. A short part easily forgotten considering all the stuff that happens in that book.

    It's often intrigued me though and I've started a topic for it here in the Song of Susannah section.

    Not sure it'll have much mileage though, but it's fun to speculate.

    Back to the letter, I'll have a peek later, but I'm not sure Roland's ancestor wrote it directly. I think it was actually written by Calvin's ancestor, so Letti's theory concerning the dream makes sense.

    It'd be interesting if there's been direct contact though wouldn't it?
    Spoiler:
    We know the ancients traveled to the keystone earth and other Americas, as do the can-toi. Maybe that's not just a province of the enemy.


    I certainly got the impression in the later books Roland's ancestors, even his father, had more knowledge of his destiny than we were led to believe in the earlier books.

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Brainslinger, I definitely agree that Stephen Deschain knew much more than he let on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brainslinger View Post
    .... I certainly go the impression in the later books Roland's ancestors, even his father, had more knowledge of his destiny than we were led to believe in the earlier books.
    Yes, that's exactly right - and only very late in the series (SoS + DT7).
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    I love the idea that Roland's ancestors knew Calvin's ancestors...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    *hugs mia/susannah* Thinking deep? I think as deep as a puddle after the light summer rain.

    Brainslinger, I really like your post. It's absolutely fascinating.

    Anyway a new theory has just come to my mind.
    Calvin's great-great-granddad might have dreamt of Gilead and Roland... might have seen other worlds in his dreams because of the rose. Like Calvin.
    Calvin says to Eddie that he does dream of that vacant lot quite a lot but Eddie feels Calvin keeps his secret as well.
    So Tower's great-great-granddad wanted to be sure if that gunslinger he had dreamt of ever visited his world would get any help he would need from his family.
    Dang, I really like this theory.

    My friend and I were talking about this tonight. This theory, or the theory that Calvin's grandfather somehow knew Roland's grandfather is the only other theory that works for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post

    Anyway a new theory has just come to my mind.
    Calvin's great-great-granddad might have dreamt of Gilead and Roland...
    This popped into my mind, also.
    Time spent with cats is never wasted.

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