Intact or Circumcised

[Darkthoughts]

it's about a visible symbol of the belief in the covenant between god and man. it's about giving up a piece of yourself - literally - for your god and his love. it's about accepting your place in god's eyes and accepting your place in god's world.

Do the women have any ceremony where they form a covenant with god? This would help me to understand what I'm asking in my questions below the next quote - because if women don't form a covenant, how does that affect their bond with God?

see, i don't agree with this. i don't find it archaic and nonsensical. i think it's an important part of jewish religious and cultural heritage.

But, why? I don't mean that disrespectfully - its a sincere question. I could understand someone who was orthodox doing it, because they are following every Jewish law. But if you're not why is cutting off a part of your child's penis acceptable, when you don't follow other rules? And, in relation to the question above - if a woman doesn't have to offer up a part of herself, why is it necessary for the men to?

If you don't want to answer its cool - I'm not targetting you personally, its just that you've answered me so far

...like you might like a slight curve where Darkthoughts might prefer something that resembles a boomerang.

Where did that come from?!

I find a lot of comments in here to be very deprecating of religion, both on a large and small scale. I'm not a terribly religious person at this point in my life, but the lack of respect of other peoples' beliefs is getting really irritating and probably very offensive to those who practice those religions.

I know it comes off as worldy and learned to insult peoples' beliefs as old-fashioned and based on silly ideas, but it also comes off as intolerant and snobbish. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean you can attempt to invalidate an entire belief system with your judgements.

But why not? I never understand this point being made as a counter argument. Sure, I respect Turtlesong for example (or my cousins who are Jewish), as a person and I respect her right to her own opinion...but do I respect the Jewish faith (or any faith for that matter)...no! I'm not Jewish and I don't believe any of it - so why can't I state that in my opinion?

[cozener]

Ka-mai, you’re taking what I said in the least favorable way you can possibly take it. I admit that sometimes when I’m attempting to use humor to make a point it isn't always taken in the way I intended. If someone believes in God, is a Jew, Muslim, Christian, whatever, I have no problem with that. What I’m suggesting is that while the core beliefs might be sound (the 10 Commandments are as good a set of rules to live by as any other), the devil is in these archaic details. I feel that many of the particulars...snippits from scriptures concerning things like circumcision, homosexuality, birth control, et al are outmoded concepts. They had their uses thousands of years ago but in today's world they simply don't make sense to me. I cannot help the way I feel nor will I apologize for voicing that opinion. But I certainly was not attempting to prove my intellectual superiority by demeaning religion and I sure as hell was not attempting do demean those that follow any particular religion.

You see, to me, circumcision is mutilation...pure and simple. The only difference with circumcision being used as a sacrament is that it makes it ritualized mutilation.

[Daghain]

And, in relation to the question above - if a woman doesn't have to offer up a part of herself, why is it necessary for the men to?

I think it has something to do with the way women were viewed at that time - as property more than people. Men would have been the ones in charge, and the ones who could enter into "contracts" and "covenants".

Or, I'm totally off base.

[cozener]

Actually that sounds fairly logical to me.

BTW...thats another 'particular' I take issue with when we're talking about religious texts that were written thousands of years ago...the view of women. I mean...if you're going to believe that circumcision is what God wants you to do then you might as well accept not only that birth control and homosexuality is bad but that women should also accept things like...

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)

and that

"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)

and my personal fav...

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

[Daghain]

Yeah, they would have stoned me to death at a young age, for sure.

[cozener]

But remember folks...the devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.

*quickly tucks his tail into the back of his pants*

[B Rag]

I hope this isn't off topic, but I've always wondered, what do they do with the foreskin after they remove it? Do they just throw it in the wastebasket?
Can you imagine being a hobo, and falling asleep in the hospital dumpster, and suddenly someone throws a bag of foreskins on your face?

[Wuducynn]

They give them to Cozener to eat.

[cozener]

Its a lot like fried calamari.

[B Rag]

[Girlystevedave]

I hope this isn't off topic, but I've always wondered, what do they do with the foreskin after they remove it? Do they just throw it in the wastebasket?
Can you imagine being a hobo, and falling asleep in the hospital dumpster, and suddenly someone throws a bag of foreskins on your face?

[Daghain]

I do believe they incinerate them. At least I think that's what they do with a lot of that kind of thing.

[cozener]

Actually I googled up "discarded foreskin uses". Apparently...I didn't go to the links...its used in face cream and maybe for something akin to stem cell research.

[Ka-mai]

I think Jewish people save them... wasn't that in Meet the Fockers? Never saw the movie, just heard a rumor.

[B Rag]

Face cream! Are you serious?

"Oh honey, I love this new vanishing cream you got me, what's in it?"
"Penises."

[Girlystevedave]

Actually I googled up "discarded foreskin uses". Apparently...I didn't go to the links...its used in face cream and maybe for something akin to stem cell research.

I think I have heard that before.

Face cream! Are you serious?

"Oh honey, I love this new vanishing cream you got me, what's in it?"
"Penises."

Man...I have never been happier that I have no worries over aging.

[cozener]

I gotch yer face cream fer ya!

[B Rag]

Oh boy!


So yours is used for that anyway?

[cozener]

Bah...I wish.

[theBeamisHome]

it got a lil warm in here since i left....

[cozener]

...like you might like a slight curve where Darkthoughts might prefer something that resembles a boomerang.

Where did that come from?!

So...you're saying you don't?

[Wuducynn]

Its a lot like fried calamari.

I hear its good with fava beans and a nice Chianti.

[B Rag]

it got a lil warm in here since i left....

Welcome back! *throws special cream*

[theBeamisHome]

eek!

[Wuducynn]

theBeamishome didn't enjoy the "pearl necklace"...