View Poll Results: Are you for or against circumcision?

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Thread: Intact or Circumcised

  1. #101
    Kilgore Trout valtr0n is on a distinguished road valtr0n's Avatar

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    On the topic of piercing a child's ears...

    Who are you really doing that for? Is your child a fashion accessory? Does she really need to have holes poked in her ears so that you can put earrings on her that match her dress?

    It just seems ridiculous. Piercing especially should only be allowed with consent of the pierced themselves. If there's a valid reason for having it done at an early age, when the child can't object, I'd like to know it, because for all intents and purposes it seems like it's solely a vanity thing. "Look how cute my baby girl is with her pierced ears!"

    It just seems silly, and unlike circumcision, there is no benefit to even possibly be argued/claimed. At least with circumcision you can defend your point, "I heard it's better for the kid." With the piercing thing, what can you really say?

    Yeah, you can say "It's my kid, I'll do what I want!" But, when it comes to a persons body, you don't own that, and you never will. Who are we to make choices like that? Yeah, the holes grow back, but how vain are we as a society that we feel the need to inflict pain on a child so that the child might be able to wear fashion accessories that really only complement the mother's ability to style her child?

  2. #102
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    Can't say I'm a fan of that either...

  3. #103
    Banned The Lady of Shadows is on a distinguished road

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    as for the piercing thing. my god daughter wanted her ears pierced starting at a young age. but her mother wouldn't let her get them done until she was old enough to take care of them herself. i applauded that decision. if she wanted them done, she needed to be able to handle them. she ended up getting all kinds of infections in the piercings, allergies to nickel content in the earrings, it was awful. plus she's not allowed to wear them during sports (and she's highly active in sports). so what was the point?

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by valtr0n View Post
    On the topic of piercing a child's ears...

    Who are you really doing that for? Is your child a fashion accessory? Does she really need to have holes poked in her ears so that you can put earrings on her that match her dress?

    It just seems ridiculous. Piercing especially should only be allowed with consent of the pierced themselves. If there's a valid reason for having it done at an early age, when the child can't object, I'd like to know it, because for all intents and purposes it seems like it's solely a vanity thing. "Look how cute my baby girl is with her pierced ears!"

    I saw a dog with it's ears pierced the other day.
    Needless to say, the owner deserved a swift punch to the face.

  5. #105
    Satanic Mechanic B Rag will become famous soon enough B Rag's Avatar

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    I was thinking of questioning the whole ear-piercing thing earlier, but didn't wanna be the one to bring it up.

    And thanks for posting that link to the article, Cozener; I'd always assumed it was just useless skin, I was way off!
    Have you heard of people with short fuses? Well, I have no fuse at all, and there's a thousand could testify to it if I hadn't stilled their tongues for good.

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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by feverishparade View Post
    It's funny how everyone is getting so worked up over penises.
    Well, you only have one, and I'm not sure about you or others, but mine plays a pretty "big" role in my life.

  7. #107
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    Oh, that's real subtle how you opted to use the banana smilie

  8. #108
    Forgetful Fantasy-Maker Tiffany is on a distinguished road Tiffany's Avatar

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    This thread has been very enlightening but I think what I've gotten most out of it is that people like talking about dongs. I'm not excluding myself.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”-Mark Twain

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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by valtr0n View Post
    Who are you really doing that for? Is your child a fashion accessory?
    Yes that is the defacto reason a "parent" would do that to an infant/child.

    Quote Originally Posted by valtr0n View Post
    If there's a valid reason for having it done at an early age, when the child can't object, I'd like to know it, because for all intents and purposes it seems like it's solely a vanity thing. "Look how cute my baby girl is with her pierced ears!"
    The "valid" reason is that just like a fashion accessory, or a lap dog, the child is a way to draw attention to the "owner".
    I agree with you completely about the ear piercings.

  10. #110
    Otter of the Prim cozener will become famous soon enough cozener will become famous soon enough cozener's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiffany View Post
    This thread has been very enlightening but I think what I've gotten most out of it is that people like talking about dongs. I'm not excluding myself.
    So...you like them curved or straight? If so, how many degrees? I wonder how much that answer varies from woman to woman...like you might like a slight curve where Darkthoughts might prefer something that resembles a boomerang. And wouldn't it be neat if a guy had a penis with scales tattooed on it and a rattler on his scrotum?

  11. #111
    Gunslinger Apprentice ATG is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randall Flagg View Post
    What is the #1 cosmetic surgury in the USA?
    Nope, not breast enhancement, that's #3. (~364,000 in 2005)
    Circumcision is the #1. > 6 Million in 2005!

    I could not find any proof of this being #1, however; Male Pectoral Implants : It is a procedure used to enhance chest size in men by inserting silicone implants under the chest muscle, was in the top ten on Wikipedia.

    I booking an appointment. See you later.
    "The Constitution shall never be construed....to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms" (Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87)

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Randall Flagg View Post
    What is the #1 cosmetic surgury in the USA?
    Nope, not breast enhancement, that's #3. (~364,000 in 2005)
    Circumcision is the #1. > 6 Million in 2005!

    I could not find any proof of this being #1, however;
    I booking an appointment. See you later.
    My estimate was a bit off, but the numbers are still convincing
    Current USA poulation is ~303,824,626
    Birth rate is 14.18 births/1,000 population (2008 est.)
    303,824,626 x 0.01418= 4,308,233 births in 2008.
    Male female birth ratio is almost 50/50= 2 Million males born in the USA in 2008 (est.) 2 Million x 65.3 % (1999 USA Circ %) =1,306,000 males per year circumcised.
    I left out small percentage of death rates. etc.
    Check my math, but here is the reference
    Lipo and breast surgery data

  13. #113
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by turtlesong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    I still don't think it's necessary if its for religious reasons. The reasons that Jayson kindly provided, seem archaic and nonsensical to me.

    I agree with you there Lisa, though I see the cultural significance, at least as far as my own American Jewish culture goes. Again. I'm glad Ella was a girl so I don't have to make this decision.

    see, i don't agree with this. i don't find it archaic and nonsensical. i think it's an important part of jewish religious and cultural heritage.
    I can understand that, but IMO religion isn't something you put upon your children either. And please understand I mean no disrespect, but if I were still religious and god himself says I want you to chop off your arm....well, we'll talk about that, but when he says thee shall cut thy junk. You know what screw that! Cast me in the pit. Please!

  14. #114
    Sleep Controller ZoNeSeeK is on a distinguished road ZoNeSeeK's Avatar

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    The year I was born the majority of male babies were still circed in Aus so my brother and I grew up looking different from most of our friends, but do you want to know a secret? Noone really gives a flying fuck! And jesus christ, if a woman laughs at you when you're naked then its a blessing in diguise - why would you want to be around such a shallow, insensitive cow? Thank your lucky stars for the heads up (so to speak).

    How would you ladies feel about a guy who laughed at your tits when you took your top off? Maybe your nipples are a little dark or too big? What if you have cellulite on your ass? Laugh at that too?

    How about teaching your sons that their bodies are perfectly OK and there is nothing wrong with the way they are born instead of caving to this skin-deep pressure and perpetuating what is basically modern day barbarism?
    "You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think." - Duma Key
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  15. #115
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    I think that if every mother of a new born male were to personally (and I mean in person, hearing-seeing the baby in obvious pain) watch a couple of these being done prior to deciding the fate of their own son, the circ rate would immediately drop by half.

  16. #116
    Little Bird Ka-mai has a spectacular aura about Ka-mai has a spectacular aura about Ka-mai has a spectacular aura about Ka-mai's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZoNeSeeK View Post
    Thank your lucky stars for the heads up (so to speak).
    This completely cracked me up. I'm so immature.

    But you do have a point.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cozener View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiffany View Post
    This thread has been very enlightening but I think what I've gotten most out of it is that people like talking about dongs. I'm not excluding myself.
    So...you like them curved or straight? If so, how many degrees? I wonder how much that answer varies from woman to woman...like you might like a slight curve where Darkthoughts might prefer something that resembles a boomerang. And wouldn't it be neat if a guy had a penis with scales tattooed on it and a rattler on his scrotum?


    who told you!? it just hangs to the left a little, that's all!!
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  18. #118
    Banned The Lady of Shadows is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by turtlesong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    I still don't think it's necessary if its for religious reasons. The reasons that Jayson kindly provided, seem archaic and nonsensical to me.

    I agree with you there Lisa, though I see the cultural significance, at least as far as my own American Jewish culture goes. Again. I'm glad Ella was a girl so I don't have to make this decision.

    see, i don't agree with this. i don't find it archaic and nonsensical. i think it's an important part of jewish religious and cultural heritage.
    I can understand that, but IMO religion isn't something you put upon your children either. And please understand I mean no disrespect, but if I were still religious and god himself says I want you to chop off your arm....well, we'll talk about that, but when he says thee shall cut thy junk. You know what screw that! Cast me in the pit. Please!


    oh, sorry, i have to wipe the tears of laughter out of my eyes to be able to type a response.

    "thee shall cut thy junk".



    isn't that like the 11th commandment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randall Flagg View Post
    I think that if every mother of a new born male were to personally (and I mean in person, hearing-seeing the baby in obvious pain) watch a couple of these being done prior to deciding the fate of their own son, the circ rate would immediately drop by half.
    well, since the bris is usually a festive occasion, with a party and food and all, most jewish mothers have seen it done. multiple times. but i totally get your point. the first time i ever saw it done (this was before i converted) i was like "wtf are you doing to that little baby". but the thing is, since it's typically done in the hospital, most people don't even think about it anymore.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by turtlesong View Post
    most people don't even think about it anymore.
    This is exactly what I'd like to change.

    Originally I wasn't really talking about circumcision in a religious light. I mean no offense but I have absolutely no respect for circumcision as a sacrament. To me, its even worse than doing it because your doctor tells you that its "clean". At least in that situation you have a live person in front of you that is supposed to know better than you telling you should. In the case of religion you're doing it because some sheepherder chiseled it down on a tablet over 5000 years ago.

    I do realize its a matter of faith but I also know that some of these rules that many religions are saddled with were included more as a matter of practicality than spirituality. For instance, pork is no longer dangerous to eat as it was back in the day and many modern Jews have set aside the moratorium on eating pork because they recognize this. Due too a high infant mortality rate and the need for many hands to till the fields and herd the cattle "going forth and multiplying" was good and homosexuality and birth control were deemed bad.

    My theory on circumcision is that it got started because some tribal chieftain from way back had a kid whose johnson got infected and his shaman, after reading the guts of a rabid wombat, told him that all males must undergo this procedure to protect them from the evil spirits that caused the sickness. This eventually became a right of passage and some kind of covenant with some deity/deities.

    Again, I mean no disrespect toward anyone's religion but I can't help how I feel about it. I will say that I consider religion a much more legit reason than "because it looks better".

  20. #120
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    Once in Theater Arts class, we conducted a survey of all the guys about this. I was the only one who was uncirced.

  21. #121
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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cozener View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by turtlesong View Post
    most people don't even think about it anymore.
    This is exactly what I'd like to change.

    Originally I wasn't really talking about circumcision in a religious light. I mean no offense but I have absolutely no respect for circumcision as a sacrament. To me, its even worse than doing it because your doctor tells you that its "clean". At least in that situation you have a live person in front of you that is supposed to know better than you telling you should. In the case of religion you're doing it because some sheepherder chiseled it down on a tablet over 5000 years ago.

    I do realize its a matter of faith but I also know that some of these rules that many religions are saddled with were included more as a matter of practicality than spirituality. For instance, pork is no longer dangerous to eat as it was back in the day and many modern Jews have set aside the moratorium on eating pork because they recognize this. Due too a high infant mortality rate and the need for many hands to till the fields and herd the cattle "going forth and multiplying" was good and homosexuality and birth control were deemed bad.

    My theory on circumcision is that it got started because some tribal chieftain from way back had a kid whose johnson got infected and his shaman, after reading the guts of a rabid wombat, told him that all males must undergo this procedure to protect them from the evil spirits that caused the sickness. This eventually became a right of passage and some kind of covenant with some deity/deities.

    Again, I mean no disrespect toward anyone's religion but I can't help how I feel about it. I will say that I consider religion a much more legit reason than "because it looks better".
    You had a most compelling and correct start-in fact the first two paragraphs were almost perfectly put.....Paragraph three was the comedy

  23. #123
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    I find a lot of comments in here to be very deprecating of religion, both on a large and small scale. I'm not a terribly religious person at this point in my life, but the lack of respect of other peoples' beliefs is getting really irritating and probably very offensive to those who practice those religions.

    I know it comes off as worldy and learned to insult peoples' beliefs as old-fashioned and based on silly ideas, but it also comes off as intolerant and snobbish. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean you can attempt to invalidate an entire belief system with your judgements.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by turtlesong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by turtlesong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    I still don't think it's necessary if its for religious reasons. The reasons that Jayson kindly provided, seem archaic and nonsensical to me.

    I agree with you there Lisa, though I see the cultural significance, at least as far as my own American Jewish culture goes. Again. I'm glad Ella was a girl so I don't have to make this decision.

    see, i don't agree with this. i don't find it archaic and nonsensical. i think it's an important part of jewish religious and cultural heritage.
    I can understand that, but IMO religion isn't something you put upon your children either. And please understand I mean no disrespect, but if I were still religious and god himself says I want you to chop off your arm....well, we'll talk about that, but when he says thee shall cut thy junk. You know what screw that! Cast me in the pit. Please!


    oh, sorry, i have to wipe the tears of laughter out of my eyes to be able to type a response.

    "thee shall cut thy junk".



    isn't that like the 11th commandment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randall Flagg View Post
    I think that if every mother of a new born male were to personally (and I mean in person, hearing-seeing the baby in obvious pain) watch a couple of these being done prior to deciding the fate of their own son, the circ rate would immediately drop by half.
    well, since the bris is usually a festive occasion, with a party and food and all, most jewish mothers have seen it done. multiple times. but i totally get your point. the first time i ever saw it done (this was before i converted) i was like "wtf are you doing to that little baby". but the thing is, since it's typically done in the hospital, most people don't even think about it anymore.
    Well, I can say one thing for sure if someone were cutting it NOONE is having a goddamned party to celebrate the aforementioned junk getting cut. Fuck that.


    "congrats on getting your shit cut off" And what do you get presents? Cake? Well, that's a fair fucking trade. As tempting as this sounds I think I'd pass on it and avoid decapitation.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by ka-mai View Post
    I find a lot of comments in here to be very deprecating of religion, both on a large and small scale. I'm not a terribly religious person at this point in my life, but the lack of respect of other peoples' beliefs is getting really irritating and probably very offensive to those who practice those religions.

    I know it comes off as worldy and learned to insult peoples' beliefs as old-fashioned and based on silly ideas, but it also comes off as intolerant and snobbish. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean you can attempt to invalidate an entire belief system with your judgements.
    Sarah, I can't speak for others, but everything I've said has been intended in a lighthearted, playful manner. There is no derision from me. If someone who were of that particular faith were offended I'd be fine with editing it out.

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