Intact or Circumcised

[cozener]

I’m against it. In fact, I’m almost militant about it. Both of my boys are intact. There are a million and one links I could post describing all of the reasons that this should not be done but I’m apprehensive. I don’t want this to turn into something nasty. It did at another board I post in…I mean people really lost it and it got ugly. I didn't, of course. But I think the reason parents that have this done take umbrage to someone like me saying it shouldn’t be done is because they think I’m questioning how good of a parent they are. I’m not. I think it’s a bad decision to be sure but its one that people are very easily lead into making. Most people have no clue about this. They do this because most everyone in this country is circ’d and they’re told things that aren’t true by people that should know better.

Also, it became apparent during the course of the discussion at this other board that some of the guys there thought that I was questioning their manhood somehow. Just know before you post that I am not questioning your parenting skills if you had your son circ’d and I am not attempting to say that you aren’t as manly as I am because I have a foreskin and you don’t.

[jayson]

I'm of jewish parents, so that answers for my status. I'm not really for or against it other than on an individual basis. I suppose in this area I'm lucky we had a girl so that wasn't a choice we had to make as parents. I don't have anything against it, but I also see where it's not something necessary from a medical standpoint, it's more a cultural thing.

[CPU]

I had to vote for unsure. I was circumcised as a baby, no choice in the matter at all. I'm not sure if I would vote for/against having a son circumcised, cause well, I don't have one

I've heard (potentially incorrect) info that circumcision is done to prevent various "health" issues. On the other hand I've heard that men that have been circumcised lose some sensitivity, since the sensitive areas of the penis is exposed even while flaccid.

I know that some women have told me that from an aescetic (I can't spell this for some damn reason) standpoint they prefer circumcised men - but that could easily just be a cultural bias in our country where most men are circumcised.

So, I guess if I had to choose, I'd probably choose to be circumcised - mainly because that's what I'm used to - if that makes any sense at all.

[B Rag]

I'm cut, but undecided on whether it's right or wrong. I have heard some stuff about foreskin being more work to clean, but I imagine it's not an outrageous amount of work.

But I really hope this thread gets "sticky"d, so the words "sticky" and "circumcised" will appear in the same title!

[Matt]

I'm cut, so is my boy. I'm not sure I even considered the decision at the time, it seemed a "natural" thing to do.

Not saying that is of course.

And...I can't see any reason in the world why someone would be offended by this discussion. What I do with my kids is my business and as far as manly...well, I think that has a lot to do with what a person is able to do with the thing.

[Randall Flagg]

What is the #1 cosmetic surgury in the USA?
Nope, not breast enhancement, that's #3. (~364,000 in 2005)
Circumcision is the #1. > 6 Million in 2005!

[John_and_Yoko]

I was circumcised, I don't know what I'd do with any sons of mine (don't have any yet--not even married).

I'm kind of hoping for a daughter so I can avoid this whole decision....

[Daghain]

I know that some women have told me that from an aescetic (I can't spell this for some damn reason) standpoint they prefer circumcised men - but that could easily just be a cultural bias in our country where most men are circumcised.

And this is why I voted "for". I'm sure it's ingrained cultural bias, but...it just doesn't "look right" uncircumcised to me.

[mia/susannah]

I have not voted as of yet. I have never had to make this decision because I had 4 girls. I have never seen a man who was not circumsized. But I don't think it is medically necassary just a culture thing.

[Matt]

Not work safe!!

Spoiler:

[mia/susannah]

Thanks Matt. Now that I know that, circumsized all the way
Seriouisly though, still think it is just a cultutal thing

[ManOfWesternesse]

As you didn't have a "Hell, No!" button, I just hit the "Against" one.

[turtlex]

Not work safe!!

Spoiler:

Ew. Boy Parts! Just kidding.

I voted against. From all I've seen - gosh the little guys have pain with the procedure and afterwards. Ouch. Granted, they might not remember, but who knows what lurks deep down. Seems un-necessary.

Why cause pain unnecessarily?

I don't agree that "its unclean" argument. So, teach your son to wash properly.

Again, I come back to the pain issue.

[John_and_Yoko]

Let's not forget about the boy who was raised as a girl--there's an argument against circumcision if anyone ever needed one....

[turtlex]

What is the #1 cosmetic surgury in the USA?
Nope, not breast enhancement, that's #3. (~364,000 in 2005)
Circumcision is the #1. > 6 Million in 2005!

RF - Do you think it can be considered "cosmetic surgery" if the person it is performed on doesn't give consent?

And, okay, I'll ask - what the heck is # 2 ?

[jayson]

given the topic, shouldn't it read "pole options" rather than "poll options"?

[mia/susannah]

given the topic, shouldn't it read "pole options" rather than "poll options"?

[Ruthful]

I believe the word you were searching for is "aesthetic."

An ascetic is the type of person depicted in Siddhartha.

[Randall Flagg]

What is the #1 cosmetic surgury in the USA?
Nope, not breast enhancement, that's #3. (~364,000 in 2005)
Circumcision is the #1. > 6 Million in 2005!

RF - Do you think it can be considered "cosmetic surgery" if the person it is performed on doesn't give consent?

And, okay, I'll ask - what the heck is # 2 ?

#2 is liposuction.
Yes it can be considered cosmetic-with or without the recipients permission. Definition:

Cosmetic Surgery is a subspecialty of medicine and surgery that uniquely restricts itself to the enhancement of appearance through surgical and medical techniques.

Not to start a brouhaha, but women go crazy (rightfully so I add) about clitoral removal performed on young girls by some cultures in Africa, yet are perfectfully fine with circumcision.

[Ruthful]

Yeah, but FGM leads to all sorts of horrible, subsidiary medical complications, e.g. fistula, incontinence, death during child birth, inability to have sexual intercourse without experiencing pain. Infibulation and cliterodectomies are a lot more physically and psychologically damaging in the long-term than male circumcision, which isn't to say that I think male circumcision is right, but I don't think you can draw parallels between the two procedures.

[Nerak]

yeah, I think that it's a big stretch to compare the two. those poor girls are what, almost teenagers when it is done and it's done so cruelly

I voted for. My three sons are done. The only person that I know that didn't have it done to their kids is my sister. All four of her boys are uncut. And I admit, it's the strangest looking thing! LOL I had it done for cleanliness and health issues. I know, old old reason, but still valid in my book.

[cozener]

Yeah, but FGM leads to all sorts of horrible, subsidiary medical complications, e.g. fistula, incontinence, death during child birth, inability to have sexual intercourse without experiencing pain. Infibulation and cliterodectomies are a lot more physically and psychologically damaging in the long-term than male circumcision, which isn't to say that I think male circumcision is right, but I don't think you can draw parallels between the two procedures.

You can compare them. Here's my one link...couldn't resist.

http://www.norm-uk.org/circumcision_...witem&item=119

This site is devoted to the issue. If you ever hope to have a son I urge you to check it out or do your own surfing on the subject. Just please don't go into it blindly...not because you are circumcized...not because you've been told its what you "should" do. As far as cosmetic reasons are concerned...by the time a woman sees my penis its usually hard anyway and my foreskin is naturally pulled back. No woman has ever kicked me out of bed. (well...at least not for that anyway)

But while there's all sorts of reasons not to do it. I just need one. Like RF said, just one screwed up circing out of umpteen million is enough for me...but if you look at the site you'll see that the chances are lot better than that for a botched circumcision.

I can assure you all that cleaning an intact penis is just as easy as cleaning a cut one and cutting, despite what we've been led to believe, does not help a man stay any cleaner. It really is cosmetic and the US is the only Western country that does it on such a regular basis. The foreskin is there for a reason...sensitivity (for both partners), it actually promotes cleanliness, and it offers protection for the nerves of the head of the penis.

Ok...I'm done playing foreskin activist for now.

[B Rag]

I can assure you all that cleaning an intact penis is just as easy as cleaning a cut one and cutting, despite what we've been led to believe, does not help a man stay any cleaner.

Don't you have to pull back the foreskin to clean under it? I remember my textbook in Health class saying something about that. So that would make it a little less easy... right?

[CPU]

I believe the word you were searching for is "aesthetic."

An ascetic is the type of person depicted in Siddhartha.

Thank you, I make that mistake ALL the time for some reason......

[Ruthful]

yeah, I think that it's a big stretch to compare the two. those poor girls are what, almost teenagers when it is done and it's done so cruelly.

I'm not sure, but I think it's performed when a girl experiences her first menses. There's a vivid description of it in Ayaan Hirsi Ali's wonderful memoir, "Infidel," which describes the torturous experience of her sister at the hands of female relatives. She wound up committing suicide from what I recall.