The DC Film Universe

[webstar1000]

Just a little counter to the "Marvel did it the right way" point. I'm not entirely sure it was necessary to have that build up. As far as The Justice league goes, you only really need to care about Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman. All of which had movies leading up to this. Marvel didn't have Black Widow and Hawkeye movies leading into Avengers, and really I'm not sure the Hulk movie really counts since they changed actors and the Bruce Banner character is written entirely differently than it was for Edward Norton. Plus pretty much everyone on planet earth knows about Batman and Superman, I don't think you could really say that about any of the Avengers characters before those Marvel movies. That said I would've liked a solo Batman movie before BvS.

Honestly, that may be what hurt DC. Everyone does know about Superman and Batman. They've had dozens of movies between the 2 characters.

But when the first couple of Iron Man movies came out (who I will admit I knew nothing about beforehand) everything seemed to grow naturally and the hype for the movies has built organically. DC seems like they are trying to force it too much.

I guess I just never felt that way about them. I mean if you look at it, there where 4 movies leading into Justice League. Man of Steel, Batman V. Superman, Suicide Squad, and Wonder Woman. Leading into Avengers you have Iron Man, Hulk, Iron Man 2, Captain America and Thor. There's only one more movie there and they completely changed the Hulk / Banner's character and Iron Man just had 2 movies. The main thing is just that those Marvel movies came first and the perceived quality of the DC ones. I don't really have an axe to grind though. I pretty much enjoy all of these movies.

The fact remains... Marvel has done it better. For fans AND critics. There is no other way to look at it. I wish DC could find a leg to be honest... I love DC and it's darker tones.....

[mae]

https://batman-news.com/2017/11/21/j...-fan-petition/

By now you know the story: Zack Snyder turned in a cut of Justice League earlier this year but Warner Bros. wasn’t satisfied with it. Joss Whedon was brought in to rewrite the script, and WB CEO Kevin Tsujihara reportedly mandated that the movie be no longer than two hours.

Over the weekend, some of Zack Snyder’s deleted scenes leaked online, leaving fans wondering how much different his version of the movie was than the one that hit theaters. The Hollywood Reporter caught up with Justice League cinematographer Fabian Wagner, who endorsed Snyder’s version of the movie and spoke a bit about it.

“This one was even shorter than I expected, so there are scenes that aren’t in there. I really hope we get to see a director’s cut, which will give us everything that we shot that didn’t make it in,” Wagner said. “What I love about his [Snyder’s] director’s cuts is they are long, but he takes his time to tell the story. I’ve never watched any of his directors cut and thought ‘This is long.” Whether they are three hours long, or three hours and ten minutes, they always seemed to go quick.”

Fans have started a petition on Change.org, asking that Warner Bros. release Snyder’s cut of Justice League on Blu-ray. As of today it passed 75,000 signatures, so there’s certainly a demand. My gut tells me that we’ll get deleted scenes on the Blu-ray, but not a brand new cut, but money talks! If this petition keeps going and Warner Bros. thinks there’s lots of money to be made, maybe they will release a new cut of Justice League on home video.

[DanHocker]

Just a little counter to the "Marvel did it the right way" point. I'm not entirely sure it was necessary to have that build up. As far as The Justice league goes, you only really need to care about Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman. All of which had movies leading up to this. Marvel didn't have Black Widow and Hawkeye movies leading into Avengers, and really I'm not sure the Hulk movie really counts since they changed actors and the Bruce Banner character is written entirely differently than it was for Edward Norton. Plus pretty much everyone on planet earth knows about Batman and Superman, I don't think you could really say that about any of the Avengers characters before those Marvel movies. That said I would've liked a solo Batman movie before BvS.

Honestly, that may be what hurt DC. Everyone does know about Superman and Batman. They've had dozens of movies between the 2 characters.

But when the first couple of Iron Man movies came out (who I will admit I knew nothing about beforehand) everything seemed to grow naturally and the hype for the movies has built organically. DC seems like they are trying to force it too much.

I guess I just never felt that way about them. I mean if you look at it, there where 4 movies leading into Justice League. Man of Steel, Batman V. Superman, Suicide Squad, and Wonder Woman. Leading into Avengers you have Iron Man, Hulk, Iron Man 2, Captain America and Thor. There's only one more movie there and they completely changed the Hulk / Banner's character and Iron Man just had 2 movies. The main thing is just that those Marvel movies came first and the perceived quality of the DC ones. I don't really have an axe to grind though. I pretty much enjoy all of these movies.

The fact remains... Marvel has done it better. For fans AND critics. There is no other way to look at it. I wish DC could find a leg to be honest... I love DC and it's darker tones.....

I guess. Maybe my tastes are just different. I liked both Man of Steel and BvS. Sure BvS had some problems, but honestly overall I felt like they where fairly minor (in my opinion) especially if you take the directors cut into account (which it doesn't really count). Honestly the only one that I really felt was a let down was Suicide Squad.

[webstar1000]

Just a little counter to the "Marvel did it the right way" point. I'm not entirely sure it was necessary to have that build up. As far as The Justice league goes, you only really need to care about Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman. All of which had movies leading up to this. Marvel didn't have Black Widow and Hawkeye movies leading into Avengers, and really I'm not sure the Hulk movie really counts since they changed actors and the Bruce Banner character is written entirely differently than it was for Edward Norton. Plus pretty much everyone on planet earth knows about Batman and Superman, I don't think you could really say that about any of the Avengers characters before those Marvel movies. That said I would've liked a solo Batman movie before BvS.

Honestly, that may be what hurt DC. Everyone does know about Superman and Batman. They've had dozens of movies between the 2 characters.

But when the first couple of Iron Man movies came out (who I will admit I knew nothing about beforehand) everything seemed to grow naturally and the hype for the movies has built organically. DC seems like they are trying to force it too much.

I guess I just never felt that way about them. I mean if you look at it, there where 4 movies leading into Justice League. Man of Steel, Batman V. Superman, Suicide Squad, and Wonder Woman. Leading into Avengers you have Iron Man, Hulk, Iron Man 2, Captain America and Thor. There's only one more movie there and they completely changed the Hulk / Banner's character and Iron Man just had 2 movies. The main thing is just that those Marvel movies came first and the perceived quality of the DC ones. I don't really have an axe to grind though. I pretty much enjoy all of these movies.

The fact remains... Marvel has done it better. For fans AND critics. There is no other way to look at it. I wish DC could find a leg to be honest... I love DC and it's darker tones.....

I guess. Maybe my tastes are just different. I liked both Man of Steel and BvS. Sure BvS had some problems, but honestly overall I felt like they where fairly minor (in my opinion) especially if you take the directors cut into account (which it doesn't really count). Honestly the only one that I really felt was a let down was Suicide Squad.

Oh I am with you Dan. I think the darker movies are more fun. I am SO excited for Venom from early reports. I hope it is dark... and deadly awesome. I just wish DC had done it more like Marvel BUT with the darker tone. Unstoppable.. I mean look at Wonder Woman... done right, little darker... and killed it.

[DanHocker]

Just a little counter to the "Marvel did it the right way" point. I'm not entirely sure it was necessary to have that build up. As far as The Justice league goes, you only really need to care about Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman. All of which had movies leading up to this. Marvel didn't have Black Widow and Hawkeye movies leading into Avengers, and really I'm not sure the Hulk movie really counts since they changed actors and the Bruce Banner character is written entirely differently than it was for Edward Norton. Plus pretty much everyone on planet earth knows about Batman and Superman, I don't think you could really say that about any of the Avengers characters before those Marvel movies. That said I would've liked a solo Batman movie before BvS.

Honestly, that may be what hurt DC. Everyone does know about Superman and Batman. They've had dozens of movies between the 2 characters.

But when the first couple of Iron Man movies came out (who I will admit I knew nothing about beforehand) everything seemed to grow naturally and the hype for the movies has built organically. DC seems like they are trying to force it too much.

I guess I just never felt that way about them. I mean if you look at it, there where 4 movies leading into Justice League. Man of Steel, Batman V. Superman, Suicide Squad, and Wonder Woman. Leading into Avengers you have Iron Man, Hulk, Iron Man 2, Captain America and Thor. There's only one more movie there and they completely changed the Hulk / Banner's character and Iron Man just had 2 movies. The main thing is just that those Marvel movies came first and the perceived quality of the DC ones. I don't really have an axe to grind though. I pretty much enjoy all of these movies.

The fact remains... Marvel has done it better. For fans AND critics. There is no other way to look at it. I wish DC could find a leg to be honest... I love DC and it's darker tones.....

I guess. Maybe my tastes are just different. I liked both Man of Steel and BvS. Sure BvS had some problems, but honestly overall I felt like they where fairly minor (in my opinion) especially if you take the directors cut into account (which it doesn't really count). Honestly the only one that I really felt was a let down was Suicide Squad.

Oh I am with you Dan. I think the darker movies are more fun. I am SO excited for Venom from early reports. I hope it is dark... and deadly awesome. I just wish DC had done it more like Marvel BUT with the darker tone. Unstoppable.. I mean look at Wonder Woman... done right, little darker... and killed it.

I think mostly the big problem is a combination of Zack Snyder, who you either love or hate, and studio interference. Which there was a lot of in BvS and a ton of in Justice League. If we get more (and I think we will) I'm glad that I've heard Kevin Tsujihara is pretty much hands off now and Geoff Johns and another person who's name I can't remember are in full control. Johns has done some great stuff with the comics and Justice League was the last movie made before they put him in charge of the whole thing.

[Shannon]

I don't mean errors, I just mean that those three movies are perfect movies.

[Tommy]

I admire your logic

[fernandito]

Saw Justice League over the weekend, it was fine. It wasn't incredible but it wasn't a train wreck either. My goodness critics these days sure are trigger happy.

The sequence where the Amazonians are desperately trying to keep the Mother Box from Steppenwolf is probably my favorite in the entire film. That was exhilarating. Also liked Superman's call back to BvS, "Tell me.. do you bleed?"

Cons: Ezra Miller's comedy felt forced at times. Also it felt like the entire movie was shot in a dark alley, can we open the curtains and get some light in here?

[webstar1000]

Saw Justice League over the weekend, it was fine. It wasn't incredible but it wasn't a train wreck either. My goodness critics these days sure are trigger happy.

The sequence where the Amazonians are desperately trying to keep the Mother Box from Steppenwolf is probably my favorite in the entire film. That was exhilarating. Also liked Superman's call back to BvS, "Tell me.. do you bleed?"

Cons: Ezra Miller's comedy felt forced at times. Also it felt like the entire movie was shot in a dark alley, can we open the curtains and get some light in here?

I hate Ezra Miller... horrible Flash. AND NOT FUNNY. I agree though the Amazonian scene was amazing! I also felt that they wasted a great opportunity with Superman as stated before.

[Andi]

It's actually a bit shocking to me, given my serious dislike of Man of Steel and Batman V Superman, but I actually found the Justice League to be watchable, if not entertaining in some parts. That being said....it didn't *fit* with the first two films, because the first two screamed DIRECTED BY ZACK SNYDER (who hasn't done anything I liked since 300) and this last one was finished and reshot in some places by Joss Whedon. And I think those scenes really stood out and fixed some of the glaring issues I have with Zack Snyder's take on these heroes and his horrible mischaracterization of Batman and Superman.

So, a few very specific things I'll add with a spoiler tag just in case:

Spoiler:

So, I felt like they managed to retro Batman in Justice League a bit....rampaging, murdering Batman from BVS is really not my cup of tea. I mean, sure, Batman HAS killed people....but if that was the way he always did his business, Superman would have no fucking choice but to haul him off and lock him up. Because Superman can't abide wholesale murder regardless of the reason. So, they cut that out entirely, which is good. And I love the line he has when he's talking to Diana about why they need Superman, that he is more human than he is (because that's true), because he has all that power and CHOSE the ordinary life of Clark Kent. When he said that I was fist pumping and so happy, because Superman is just Clark Kent dressed in a leotard, and Bruce Wayne is just Batman dressed in a business suit. It was the first thing the movies have ever said about the true complexity of Superman and Batman's relationship...how very different they, their lives, their motivations, and how they came to the same place and managed to find a common goal important enough to work together. That's a big thing to me, because I'm a Superman purist who hates Synder's vision in the Man of Steel. So...this little comment that I'm sure most people will gloss over or consider ham fisted, really struck a chord with me. Huge step in the right direction!

However, I was waiting with bated breath for the entire film for the "I'm the fucking Batman" moment and never got one. He felt tacked on in fight scenes, like a sidekick rather than the world's greatest detective and NINJA who has a plan A/B/C for EVERY CONTINGENCY. I mean, these films can't make a cool Batman without giving him a hundred henchmen to murder spectacularly? Come on folks! I honestly thought that he might have exhumed Superman's body and placed it in a UV chamber so he could super saturate him and bring him back while assembling the rest of the team, which is more in line with what happened in the Death and Life of Superman. I mean, he figured the rest of this shit out...did they actually need to use that stupid Kryptonian ship and a mother box to 'jump start' him again? Was that just a way to show that Flash is more than just some really speedy guy? I'm not sure, but I was underwhelmed by how Batman was reduced to 'the guy who comes in with the Batmobile and really big guns...sometimes'.

I thought The Flash was funny and didn't mind him.
I thought Aquaman or "Aqua-bro" as I like to call him was fine enough.
Wonder Woman was probably the best thing about the movie...good that they went back and shot more Wonder Woman scenes because it probably would have lacked considerably without them.

All in all, I enjoyed most of it. I didn't even mind Steppenwolf although I don't know a ton about him. Obviously they picked him because they are setting things up for Darkseid down the road. Of course it would have been better if they had fight Doomsday, but they seriously blew their load with using him in BVS. He could have been so much more than what they did with him. But alas. Zack Snyder.

Sidenote: I'm glad DC finally got away from the unnecessarily DARK comic book movie. There is a market for them but dark and Superman don't go hand in hand. Ever. Unless you wanna do Injustice 2....if that's the case I say go for it. That shit is crazy.

[mae]

Andi, that’s a really good and in-depth look, thank you for that! I loved the movie and I enjoyed reading your take on it. For my part I’ll agree that Wonder Woman was the best, and that was to be expected since she was so amazing in her own film. I liked everyone else, some better than others, everyone has some good contributions. I liked Aqua-bro but felt he was underused. The Flash worked for me but again I wanted more. The jokes sometimes did feel forced but overall I liked Ezra’s performance. Cyborg was cool too, and I feel like added a lot, while some said he was just a plot device. Superman was actually really bad-ass I felt, both when he first comes back and then in full costume (too bad no black suit!). And of course Batman, that opening scene was soooo Batman, I loved it. To me this is the best portrayal of Batman since Batman Returns.

[webstar1000]

Andi, that’s a really good and in-depth look, thank you for that! I loved the movie and I enjoyed reading your take on it. For my part I’ll agree that Wonder Woman was the best, and that was to be expected since she was so amazing in her own film. I liked everyone else, some better than others, everyone has some good contributions. I liked Aqua-bro but felt he was underused. The Flash worked for me but again I wanted more. The jokes sometimes did feel forced but overall I liked Ezra’s performance. Cyborg was cool too, and I feel like added a lot, while some said he was just a plot device. Superman was actually really bad-ass I felt, both when he first comes back and then in full costume (too bad no black suit!). And of course Batman, that opening scene was soooo Batman, I loved it. To me this is the best portrayal of Batman since Batman Returns.

I think this is the best Batman yet. Just my 2 cents.

[Andi]

Andi, that’s a really good and in-depth look, thank you for that! I loved the movie and I enjoyed reading your take on it. For my part I’ll agree that Wonder Woman was the best, and that was to be expected since she was so amazing in her own film. I liked everyone else, some better than others, everyone has some good contributions. I liked Aqua-bro but felt he was underused. The Flash worked for me but again I wanted more. The jokes sometimes did feel forced but overall I liked Ezra’s performance. Cyborg was cool too, and I feel like added a lot, while some said he was just a plot device. Superman was actually really bad-ass I felt, both when he first comes back and then in full costume (too bad no black suit!). And of course Batman, that opening scene was soooo Batman, I loved it. To me this is the best portrayal of Batman since Batman Returns.

The only thing I didn't love about Wonder Woman's movie is Chris Pine. I don't care for him as Captain Kirk either. I just find him uninteresting and he seriously lacks charisma. But otherwise, I really enjoyed her movie, despite my initial concern with someone as, shall we say, willowy, as Gal Gadot cast for the role. I personally felt that someone like Gina Carano would have been a better fit physically, but it's cool. Gadot has worked out far better than I expected.

I totally forgot Cyborg....who I thought was kinda cool. He looked goofy at times, but that was just the CGI playing with my eyes a bit too much. I love Ray Fisher's voice. I liked his reserved "booyah" at the end. It made me laugh.

Superman did show up very late to the party which I guess is fine considering the whole CGI his mustache snafu. I couldn't imagine watching him through the whole thing with his lip looking goofy like it did.

And I take it that you're not a fan of the Nolan movies eh?

[mae]

I’m a fan of the movies. Just not Batman in those movies. I know it’s heresy to say but I did not love the trilogy. Especially the editing during fights scenes.

Oh and I could gush about Gal Gadot all day long! I think her portrayal of Wonder Woman is so spot on. And she’s definitely taken the role and lives it in real life too. A guy friend of mine who’s not much into superheroes saw Wonder Woman and didn’t like it and said something like “So wearing a skimpy skirt is empowering?” But when I watched that No Man’s Land scene I felt empowered and I had tears streaming down my face. She was beautiful and, yes, sexy, but she was also very strong and in control and kicking all kinds of ass, leading and inspiring men into battle they shied away from for so long.

If we don’t get any more Ben Affleck as Batman, I’m okay with that even though he’s a great Batman. But I hope Gal Gadot plays Diana in like ten more movies!

[Andi]

I actually hated the Dark Knight Rises and had some serious gripes with The Dark Knight, so I think it's okay if you didn't love the trilogy. :-P

And I love that many women found Wonder Woman to be empowering...but I admit, she didn't have that kind of effect on me, at least nothing so extreme. I think the first time I ever felt truly empowered by a female movie character was when I watched Alien/Aliens the first time. Ripley was my fucking JAM. And I was only 10 or 11, so that was like a HUGE moment in my young life. Sarah Conner and Princess Leia were two more from my childhood. That being said, I'm not one of those James Cameron lackies who would suggest that a woman can't be strong AND intelligent AND beautiful. That's just ludicrous.

[webstar1000]

I actually hated the Dark Knight Rises and had some serious gripes with The Dark Knight, so I think it's okay if you didn't love the trilogy. :-P

And I love that many women found Wonder Woman to be empowering...but I admit, she didn't have that kind of effect on me, at least nothing so extreme. I think the first time I ever felt truly empowered by a female movie character was when I watched Alien/Aliens the first time. Ripley was my fucking JAM. And I was only 10 or 11, so that was like a HUGE moment in my young life. Sarah Conner and Princess Leia were two more from my childhood. That being said, I'm not one of those James Cameron lackies who would suggest that a woman can't be strong AND intelligent AND beautiful. That's just ludicrous.

Might I ask what comic movies you actually like?

[fernandito]

Nolan's Batman is the definitive cinematic Batman for me, although I will concede that fighting choreography is not his strong suit.

I do enjoy Batfleck's portrayal of Wayne though. He plays the cynical, grizzled 'war' veteran to perfection.

[Andi]

I actually hated the Dark Knight Rises and had some serious gripes with The Dark Knight, so I think it's okay if you didn't love the trilogy. :-P

And I love that many women found Wonder Woman to be empowering...but I admit, she didn't have that kind of effect on me, at least nothing so extreme. I think the first time I ever felt truly empowered by a female movie character was when I watched Alien/Aliens the first time. Ripley was my fucking JAM. And I was only 10 or 11, so that was like a HUGE moment in my young life. Sarah Conner and Princess Leia were two more from my childhood. That being said, I'm not one of those James Cameron lackies who would suggest that a woman can't be strong AND intelligent AND beautiful. That's just ludicrous.

Might I ask what comic movies you actually like?

Of course! I mean...I guess I can just...list them? I'll stick to DC since this is the DC thread.

Superman
Superman II
Batman
Batman Returns
Batman Begins
V for Vendetta
Constantine
Wonder Woman
Justice League

Pretty sure that covers most of the ones I really like off the top of my head.

EDIT: I guess I wasn't very clear with the whole The Dark Knight thing. I actually liked it for the most part. My issue was just so glaring that it kind of killed the entire movie for me. Because the whole time Batman struggles with killing the Joker, who is a complete psychopath and again and again proves to be a menace to society and just kills a ton of people...But then at the end of the movie he so quickly kills Two Face because he's got Gordon's kid? So, don't kill Joker, even though he put HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE IN DANGER in the two ferries, but omg, Gordon's son is in danger I'll kill anyone to put a stop to that shit?!

Sorry, I know, I'm super nit picky...even though it's a Super Hero movie I can only suspend my disbelief for too long before I'm just like, OKAY, ENOUGH! Like in Dark Knight Rises when he gives Talia Al Ghul a nuclear weapon because he sleeps with her one time and I guess that means....he trusts her with a nuclear weapon? Makes perfect sense, yo.

[webstar1000]

I actually hated the Dark Knight Rises and had some serious gripes with The Dark Knight, so I think it's okay if you didn't love the trilogy. :-P

And I love that many women found Wonder Woman to be empowering...but I admit, she didn't have that kind of effect on me, at least nothing so extreme. I think the first time I ever felt truly empowered by a female movie character was when I watched Alien/Aliens the first time. Ripley was my fucking JAM. And I was only 10 or 11, so that was like a HUGE moment in my young life. Sarah Conner and Princess Leia were two more from my childhood. That being said, I'm not one of those James Cameron lackies who would suggest that a woman can't be strong AND intelligent AND beautiful. That's just ludicrous.

Might I ask what comic movies you actually like?

Of course! I mean...I guess I can just...list them? I'll stick to DC since this is the DC thread.

Superman
Superman II
Batman
Batman Returns
Batman Begins
V for Vendetta
Constantine
Wonder Woman
Justice League

Pretty sure that covers most of the ones I really like off the top of my head.

not bad. I will totally agree with some of those for sure. My fav (DC) top three are:

Dark Knight - (story was great BUT the Joker was unreal)
Superman - Donner's film was a true superhero film
Man of Steel (TIE) with Batman (Burton's version)
RUNNER UP - Wonder Woman

[mae]

Speaking of Gal Gadot:

[mae]

[mae]

The world needs more Gal:

[DanHocker]

Of course! I mean...I guess I can just...list them? I'll stick to DC since this is the DC thread.

Superman
Superman II
Batman
Batman Returns
Batman Begins
V for Vendetta
Constantine
Wonder Woman
Justice League

Pretty sure that covers most of the ones I really like off the top of my head.

I can Pretty much agree with that. Though personally I'm not particularly a fan of the Christopher Reeves Superman era. And looking back on Batman Returns, that movie is a hot mess (writing wise). My top comic book movies ( in no particular order) has a lot of overlaps.

In no particular order.

Iron Man
Captain America: Winter Soldier
Batman
Batman Begins
The Dark Knight
V for Vendetta
Logan
Deadpool
Kick Ass
Scott Pilgrim (I don't think this movie gets enough credit)

Wonder Woman gets just squeezed out of the top for me and so does Avengers and Gaurdians of the Galaxy.

[mae]

I'm surprised nobody seems impressed with Batman Ninja. Or just not anime fans? It looks so cool!

[mae]