Fever, is there any way we could stop marking spoilers since the movie is already out? I'd like to talk some specifics without having to mark every other sentence. If you don't think its a good idea, no worries.
Fever, is there any way we could stop marking spoilers since the movie is already out? I'd like to talk some specifics without having to mark every other sentence. If you don't think its a good idea, no worries.
I second that motion.Originally Posted by obscurejude
Sure, why not? It seems that the only people coming in here are the people that have seen it anyway....
Let me edit the title accordingly.
Just got done watching this and I have only one comment on the whole thing......Heath Ledger fucking rocked out The Joker...dot,period,the end.
there is no way in hell that i am not seeing this in imax. i don't care if i have to fucking haunt movietickets.com for the rest of my natural life.
oh, and did i mention how much i fucking loved heath ledger in this movie? just checking.
I'd be satisfied if the franchise ended here, tell ya true. My only complaint was Two-Face dying at the end. I'd rather they saved him for the third movie and done a deeper exploration into the Batman/Joker freaky relationship. That pencil trick was crazy, man, as was that video of Joker and Brian.
Actually, I felt that this was proof Spider-Man 3 could've worked if Raimi had been more open-minded about the Venom character.
Wait, Two-Face died? I thought he was just unconscious and waiting for the hypothetical third movie! Eh, either way.
Okay. First off, I loved this movie. Especially the motorcycle scene. And seeing the Joker in a nurse outfit. And not looking at Katie Holmes' stupid "I married Tom Cruise and became a Scientologist" face (seriously, I can't even look at her anymore). All the major actors (Bale, Ledger, Oldman, Gyllenhal, Eckhart, Freeman, Caine [spelling for some of those?]) were fantastic. I would love to see a third, but I don't want them to drag this forever. Pencil scene = awesome. Boat scene = awesome (I admit when the big black prisoner got up and reached for the detonator I thought "Oh shit, they're making the black guy the villain!"So I'm very glad I was wrong about that.). Also, THANK GOD someone finally realized where Batman got his Batmobile! I kept thinking during BB that someone in that freaking company had to recognize it, or someone had to at least wonder where Batman got his toys. So it made me happy that they addressed the issue.
Things I did not like:
- I thought having that first scene with Cillian Murphy cameoing as the Scarecrow was pretty lame. It felt out of place. Nothing led into it and nothing came out of it. Just very odd. Stupid fanservice.
- The last five minutes were very preachy and cheesy and I just felt they could have cut the "Batman sacrifices himself for Gotham, he is so wonderful, I want to have his batbabies!" fanboyness of Gordon out of it. Or shortened it, anyway.
- I thought Two-Face's face was overdone. And if his burns had been that severe, he would have had severely limited motion left, so all that talking would be pretty much impossible. They could have made him shocking without going to that level. It just seemed very camp to me. Also, his death that I didn't notice was a little fast.
I have to admit this movie was a little too layered and fast-paced for me to keep track of everything, so I have to go see it again. I'm sure I'm not the only person thinking this, though.
Two Face died.Wait, Two-Face died? I thought he was just unconscious and waiting for the hypothetical third movie! Eh, either way.
Okay. First off, I loved this movie. Especially the motorcycle scene. And seeing the Joker in a nurse outfit. And not looking at Katie Holmes' stupid "I married Tom Cruise and became a Scientologist" face (seriously, I can't even look at her anymore). All the major actors (Bale, Ledger, Oldman, Gyllenhal, Eckhart, Freeman, Caine [spelling for some of those?]) were fantastic. I would love to see a third, but I don't want them to drag this forever. Pencil scene = awesome. Boat scene = awesome (I admit when the big black prisoner got up and reached for the detonator I thought "Oh shit, they're making the black guy the villain!"
Things I did not like:
- I thought having that first scene with Cillian Murphy cameoing as the Scarecrow was pretty lame. It felt out of place. Nothing led into it and nothing came out of it. Just very odd. Stupid fanservice.
- The last five minutes were very preachy and cheesy and I just felt they could have cut the "Batman sacrifices himself for Gotham, he is so wonderful, I want to have his batbabies!" fanboyness of Gordon out of it. Or shortened it, anyway.
- I thought Two-Face's face was overdone. And if his burns had been that severe, he would have had severely limited motion left, so all that talking would be pretty much impossible. They could have made him shocking without going to that level. It just seemed very camp to me. Also, his death that I didn't notice was a little fast.
I have to admit this movie was a little too layered and fast-paced for me to keep track of everything, so I have to go see it again. I'm sure I'm not the only person thinking this, though.I thought that was obvious since Batman took the rap for the his murders in order to preserve the image of the "White Knight" (why he was running at the end).
The moto scene was bad ass, especially when he used that wall to do the 180. Very cool.
The black guy throwing the detonator out the window was a surprise for me and a clear example of the ambiguity between good and evil that the movie was striving for. Some of the dialog was so infused with sordid thoughts about justice that I had a hard time knowing what to feel. This scene conveyed a lot of philosophy much more concretely in my opinion.
I agree about the Scarecrow scene. That wasn't really needed and I found myself repeatedly thinking about it throughout the movie. I was trying to piece it somewhere, but realized it was better left alone.
I thought the last five minutes were some of the best, because again, it was difficult for me to understand some of the dialog about justice at times (I read a reviewer on npr that also thought it lacked cohesion at points). What did Gordon say? Something to the effect "Batman is the hero that Gotham deserves, and that is why we are chasing him." I look forward to seeing it again and thinking through some of this in regards to the deeper structure of the movie.
Two face overdone? I found it pretty frightening and thought it was cool. Sort of like the previous Joker adaptations compared to the terrifying Ledger. The visual efficacy of both characters is tandem to their motives. Dent's fall from grace was shocking, and I thought the visual fit.
I'm going to save some of my complaints about the plot. I want to think about it some more.
:gladiator voice:
Ka Mai, are you satisfied? Are you satisfied?
Ok, yes, that makes sense now. He died. I just didn't think they'd kill him off that fast so I just assumed he was still breathing.
The detonator scene actually started a discussion between Matt and myself about if we would press the button. We were both very pleased that no one did... I actually thought the timer would be automatic and both ships would blow. I'm glad they didn't do it like that.
I thought Dent's fall from grace would have been equally characterized by shiny, red raw flesh without holes in it. Maybe oozing a little. Still gross, still shocking, but not caricaturized.
Anyway, I can see your points, I just think Gordon's little lecture could have been shorter. It got boring.
Yes, I'm satisfied.Thank you.
i actually thought the detonaters would blow up their own ships. i was heartened to see that neither ship would blow up the other. especially that the one prisoner, who seemed like he was going to do it based on his dialogue, in the end didn't. it was like, "look you don't have the guts to stand up and be a man - here let me. i may be a prisoner but i am still a man." i loved that.
The boat scene was one of my favorites. Dark, but still optimistic about the human spirit.
The Scarecrow scene was necessary for a few reasons.
It ties up the loose end from Batman Begins. We last see him freaking out on his horse.
The scene also sets up a reason for a new batsuit.
Thirdly, it sets up the idea that Gotham loves Batman and wants to emulate him. It shows that he's been making a difference since the last movie ended.
Don't you get it?! We are the walking dead! We are the walking dead...
Exactly. It's a response to the last moments in BB when Gordon tells Batman that all the inmates have escaped, and Bats says somethign to the effect of "We will get them back."
Right on.The scene also sets up a reason for a new batsuit.
Good points Valtron and Feev. I still think it was a little confusing in the midst of the initial viewing.
Saw the movie last night and loved it.
My absolute favorite part...the Joker in the nurse uniform scene. I loved when he's walking out with the place blowing up behind him, twitching his fingers. And when he starts shaking the detonator when it doesn't work.
Also loved the boats scene, especially the look of surprise on the Joker's face when he realizes it's after midnight and no one blew anyone else up.
Loved how Batman proved he's international, going to Hong Kong to bring back a crook.
Seriously though, I throughly enjoyed the movie and was amazed by Ledger's performance. I've been a huge Batman comic fan for years, with the Joker being one of my favorites and I think justice was done.
I am Daenerys Stormborn and I will take what is mine. With fire and blood.
I didn't really like the Hong Kong sequence. I just think that batman should be kept in Gotham.
Erin - my sister loved the nurse joker scene as well. When we came out of the theatres, she was like "I'm going to tattoo Nurse-Joker on my back, and then I'm planning on naming my son Heath Ledger".
Now that's a tattoo i've got to see.
His "I believe in Harvey Dent" sticker on the uniform was priceless too. I loved the attention to detail.
I am Daenerys Stormborn and I will take what is mine. With fire and blood.
Yay! I wasn't coming in here until i could speak on spoilers.. and i don't usually have internet on the weekends.
I agree with Feev about the Scarecrow scene... I was actually glad to see him again.
Am I the only person that KNEW that Zeus (big black prisoner) wasn't gonna push the button? I was actually more worried about the asshole in the citizen boat trying to blow the prisoners to smithereens... lol maybe cuz I'm black but that's a different thread
And I agree completely with t/s... I told Nigel that too, if they had pressed the button they'd have blown up their own boat I think. Just seems so Joker.
Heath Ledger was a fucking GENIUS Joker... even better than Nicholson and that's almost blasphemous for me. The pencil scene was chilling. The nurse scene was hilarious. I also liked the touch with the Dent sticker.
I also loved how they played on The Killing Joke... how the Joker doesn't even remember how he got his scars, he's given so many different stories.
Two-Face's face didn't bother me much, but I understand the problem with it being unrealistic. And I didn't think he should die just because of the whole Batman story comic book-wise, but in the movie I think he had to die.
Human kind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's first law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one and only truth.
Am i the only person in the world who thought that Jack Nicholson made a crappy Joker?
No, I'm of the same opinion. Aside from his reveal in Grissom's office, he was kinda a drag for me. I preferred Catwoman and Penguin in BR to Nicholson's Joker. Not that he didn't capture one of the many facets of the Joker's persona...its just that I liked the aspects Ledger personified more than the silly ones Nicholson did.
Aw thankee sai.
I was following this for a while on a superhero message board. You wouldn't believe the uproar over Joker applying makeup and not having his usual bleached skin look. Another thing this movie had that I really enjoyed was the car chase to get Dent to the prison. I hated the one in Begins, Returns, Forever, and B&R (the phallic imagery here was quite overwhelming, tell ya true). It was just that good, imo.
Ok, I can kind of see why Scarecrow was brought back, but I did think the scene was a little out of place. They might have been able to have it flow better.
Nurse Joker (complete with sticker) was absolute genius. I can't wait to see it again.
I read an article voicing the opinion that the Joker's different stories on his scars were just another way to point out that he's a liar. I think he's right.
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