Firstly, I went in with a more open mind about Kylo Ren (mostly due to Dan's comments earlier in the thread) and his characterization didn't bug me nearly as much this time. Dan correctly pointed out that I was expecting too much development in Kylo in too short a period and going into this a second time, I made some adjustments to my expectations and I gotta say, I loved Adam Driver as Kylo Ren in TFA and that really hasn't changed. The only time I get a little rolly eyed is at the end, when he's losing his shit over Luke appearing from no where and basically playing into his hand, allowing what is left of the rebel fleet to escape. But for the rest, I think he did a fantastic job. I still am not entirely sure what his motivation is, although I noticed this time around, when he was giving his little speech about tearing down the old ways, he did NOT mention the First Order in his rant. He mentions the Jedi, the Sith (although we've been beaten over the head that Kylo Ren is NOT a Sith....so I don't know who he's speaking about), the Rebellion, but nothing about dismantling the First Order which my brain must have just filled in on it's own, as to me, the First Order is part of the old ways and should have been included. So perhaps his true goal was killing Snoke and taking up the mantel of Supreme Leader all along? Perhaps?
I will say this....was it me or did Kylo's scar change appearance over time in the film? I don't mean between the carbon fiber insert in the wound and when he was 'stitched up' but between the fresh looking scar and towards the end of the movie when, at times, it seemed to look infected. Now, if that is the dark side corrupting him, that would be absolutely awesome and I couldn't be more on board with that. I love the idea that the dark side of the force can physically manifest itself in those who chose to wield it, much like it did in the old video games...the more dark side choices you made, the more your appearance changed...red eyes, red streaks/veins in the face, etc.
I didn't catch it through the first watch, but I find it interesting that Ben Solo, during the time when Luke confronted him, was using Anakin Skywalker's blue lightsaber and that Luke had been using the green lightsaber that he constructed after the blue one was lost when Darth Vader cut off his hand in Empire Strikes Back. So, that brings up a couple interesting things....1.) That it had been lost and found and given to Ben Solo. 2.) That it had been lost a second time when Ben Solo turned to the darkside of the force for one reason or another. 3.) That Maz had retrieved it somehow and kept it for safekeeping...possibly for Rey to find? Kylo also told Rey in TFA that the blue lightsaber is *his*...which didn't make sense at the time, but it does now that I've seen what really happened at the temple.
Now....
Given all those things, it's got me wondering:
I have always believed from the start that Kylo Ren *knows* Rey and that he was the one who actually put her on Jakku. To me, there are signs that point to this everywhere, as early back as when the officer comes to inform him that a girl helped the deserter stormtrooper escape with BB8. That whole "What girl?" always struck me as an oddly...knowing. And many things that have happened have only strengthened my belief. During the scene in the throne room...he asks for her to join him, tells her that the only place in this story is with him, that she means something to him, and then offers a small, desperate, 'please' at the end of his speech...it wreaks of some kind of past between them.
So, I have come to think that Rey was actually one of Luke's students at the Jedi temple, who Ben Solo took with him after he burned it to the ground. She would have been very very young then (I would guess 5 or 6 - The timeline in my head would suggest that Kylo is approx 10 years older than Rey), far too young, and perhaps even considered too innocent by Kylo Ren for him to present her to Snoke. But I think Ben saw something in her, or sensed it, and decided it would be best to stash her away for safe keeping until the day arose that he could come to claim her. Obviously, when Finn showed up with BB8, this would have ruined all his best laid plans for her, and he spends a majority of his time trying to convince her to join him, to allow him to train her, that she holds worth to him in some intangible way.
Obviously, this could still mean her family is nothing and no one, but I think that was a huge red herring in the film. I think that is just what Kylo wants her to believe... And Luke, who was closed off to the force for the entire time that Rey was on his island, would not have been able to sense anything familiar in her had she been one of his students. In fact, I'm willing to believe that Luke may have truly been convinced he didn't know her, especially if Kylo had taken her with him after he killed the other students. It would logically follow that she would have gone to the dark side or been killed...not show up 15 years later at his door step.
So, given all that I believe or think I know...
I *think* Rey is a clone. Someone managed to find Anakin's lightsaber after Luke's hand was cut off, so she could easily be a clone of Luke's, engineered and test tube baby'd without some of our major players being any wiser. She could also be a clone of Anakin/Darth Vader which would be even crazier but possible. After all, Kylo had Darth Vader's helmet (I've always wondered how or why), and if they can make dinosaurs out of a mosquito trapped in amber, I figure in a universe where travel faster than light speed, they can get a little DNA from the place they burned Vader's body. This would also explain, given Kylo's insane Vader worship, his desire to keep Rey at his side, rather than just kill her and be done with it. Because I think that somehow Kylo knows the truth of Rey's parentage, even if the others don't. Given the strength they both have in the force, he may be able to sense it in it, and if she's cloned from Vader, he might have even come to believe he can train her in the dark side of the force as his own apprentice (again, supposedly no Sith, but Snoke calls Kylo his apprentice so...wutevah). But I think his understanding of who and what she really is does come from a kind of connection they have as equally dark and light sides of the force. Plus, if she was cloned from Skywalker DNA, I think he'd sense her the way Luke and Leia could always sense one another, as she would be family to him.
Of course, this is all likely just wishful thinking on my part!!!!
Originally Posted by DanHocker
spoilersShould he have learned to control himself? There's one thing that I think itsn't really emphasized enough. This movie takes place in the span of what 18 hours? 24 at most? So if you go from the time they blow up Star Killer Base to the end of this movie it's been what maybe 2 days? How much control can Kylo Ren learn in that amount of time?
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