They were genetically engineered by the Great Old Ones from a mixture of human and animal material.
They are descended partly from the prim folk (i.e demons), and partly from humanity (please clarify)
They were created by the prim folk either directly or indirectly. (Please clarify)
They come from another level of the tower, i.e. another world altogether.
They're just another kind of mutant, a result of the devastating wars much like the slow mutants.
They're from todash space, i.e. between worlds.
Possibly a combination, or partial combination above options (please clarify which ones)
None of the above, they're something completely different.
I think the Tommyknockers extract was probably a reference to Animal Farm.
(Not to say the taheen link isn't relevant, the thought just occurred to me as I read that post again. That's a book I don't think I've read, although I've seen the animation.)
I've read the book - and yes, it could be applied in that way - although with Animal Farm the animals had been humanised rather than the other way round.
But, what struck me about the Tommyknockers passage, in reference to the Taheen, was that it occurred to me as a possible "creation story" rather than a direct reference to them as characters.
did anyone already mention The Island of Doctor Moreau?
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No, but that's a good example of such similar things.Originally Posted by Jean
I find myself thinking of those strange pictures where men with dog heads sit around a table as well. We have those in some pubs in England.
I guess, along with the Dr. Doom type robots, sneetches and lightsabers, it's could be another example of realities bleeding together (Darthoughts Tommyknocker example is relevant here.)
I'm not saying that the fiction of other realities directly created them though. In the same way that the great old ones created the sneetches and 'light sticks' (although, as another poster suggested in another thread, they could have gotten ideas from America side), I'm sure the taheen had a direct origin too but this thought stuff could play a part. In a similar way that the Writer writing facilitates the worlds to be, they're still spun from prim-stuff on the spindle of the Tower. (Patrick Danville's ability could be another good example of this, although I think he alters rather than creates, but that's another thread.)
I think maybe the taheens creation could be all part of that.
I recently purchased the End World Almanac. It's by the same writers as the comics (Robin Furth, Peter David) and could be taken as a companion of sorts.)
It also covers things not mentioned in the comics (so far) including sections on the taheen and can-toi.
Anyway, most of the stuff are things we know already from the books, but it has a couple of extra nuggets. Some might not consider it legitimate, not being directly by King but for completeness I'll include it here. Since it's not book material I'll spoilerize it, although it's not really much of a spoiler.
Spoiler:
The can-toi are described asSpoiler:That's not much of a surprise since we know from the book that they are human/taheen hybrids, but it narrows the nature of their hybridization (I wasn't sure that was a word but my browser didn't redline it. It did redline 'redline' however.), since
Spoiler:
They're just another kind of mutant, a result of the devastating wars much like the slow mutants. <----- this was my vote, but I'm not entirely sure they didn't have some help perhaps. Maybe they were engineered, and then the wars made their states mutate even worse.
This is my blog/page:
www.facebook.com/thespermwhaleandbowlofpetunias
This is my donation page:
https://www.razoo.com/br/causes/Maje...h-Resorption-1
Since the OP said we could discuss the can-toi as well, I'd like to here some ideas on this:
According to The End-World Almanac, the can-toi came about through human-taheen interspecies breeding. What then, I wonder, would give them the rat heads we see in the Almanac?
My theory is that the Almanac took the rat-headed description literally. Prior to the Almanac, I viewed them as having more or less humanlike heads with slightly protruding snouts/mouths and furry inherited from the genes of the taheen that give them their animal heads. For the record, I do like the more literal interpretation of the Almanac.
That was how I interpreted the can-toi too. I think their heads would need to be almost human in shape at least, to carry of their disguise. I.e. a rat's head is a completely different shape to that of a human.. yet we know the can-toi, with mask, can pass for human (at least with a cursory glance.)
The pictures do look great don't they? I think the ones in the novels are actually depicted that way too (although the Almanac versions are much more scary!)For the record, I do like the more literal interpretation of the Almanac.
The bleeding eye though... that was wrong. It shouldn't ooze like that...
Taheen and their personality
Just one simple question: is there any connection between the species of the head and the personality?
Finli was a weasel and I think it tells a lot about him but maybe my fantasy is playing with me.
What do you think?
(Soon this thread will get merged with The nature of the Taheen thread.)
Roland would have understood.
So far I agree with every single post.
Roland would have understood.
I don't recall this topic being discussed in the books but it makes sense that an individual taheen would have some of the characteristics of the animal whose head he has sitting on his shoulders. Then again, maybe not. Considering their origin, I suppose their personality makeup doesn't have to follow any rhyme or reason.
It seems to me like there is a connection, mostly because of the game that Pimli and Finli play when drinking, where Finli imagines what type of taheen famous humans might be.
Although the precise origin of the taheen is unknown, it is believed that they did not originate in the natural world ( as humans ), nor did they arise from the Prim. Rather, they are believed to somehow be the missing link between the Prim and the natural world = They patchwork between people and the "demons" from Prim. PROBABLY
It occurs to me that a demon fucked with Can-Toi ...
I think a by-product from a great war involving the Great Old Ones and The Prim, although I don't know if this ever happened or not, it's my guess. I think The Prim may have used some sort of magic to transform some of the Great Old Ones into these creatures, but wiped their memories or something, and they've eventually regained intelligence.
2:45 am- 11th February 2008- I Finished The Dark Tower
I prefer to think they are from some other level of the Tower. Genetically engineering taheen seems pointless and all the Prim stuff pisses me off a little. It's also fun to imagine that there is some connection between Egyptian animal-headed deities and the taheen...not sure if that has been mentioned yet or not.
What a great thought! That fella with the bird head always seemed familiar but I couldn't put my finger on it. Now I can.
Roland would have understood.
What about "all the Prim stuff" pisses you off?
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
That part of the mythology seemed tacked on at the end. Maybe it will leave a different impression the second time I read books 5/6/7.What about "all the Prim stuff" pisses you off?
Maybe it will. It still doesn't sit well with bears, however; maybe another reread might do the trick.That part of the mythology seemed tacked on at the end. Maybe it will leave a different impression the second time I read books 5/6/7.What about "all the Prim stuff" pisses you off?
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It may have seemed tacked on to you, but Mia tells it for a reason when you learn about how it was that - Song of Susannah spoilerSpoiler:Seems like some pretty important insight into things to me.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
I get that the story becomes important when explaining Mordred. I think what bothers me is the creation story itself, and how it suddenly attempts to tie everything together (vampires, demons, etc) - haphazardly, in my opinion. I'm happy with a random portal existing without it having been "left behind from the Prim" and explained to death.It may have seemed tacked on to you, but Mia tells it for a reason when you learn about how it was that - Song of Susannah spoilerSpoiler:Seems like some pretty important insight into things to me.
Lol, incredibly late I know but I just now saw this topic.
I didn't vote cause I'm mostly gonna focus on the Can-Toi here. I'm of the persuasion that a little psychoanalysis can go a long way in telling a person (or species, if you wanna stretch it)'s origins. My theory is maybe not so much canon, since the End-World Almanac says they were bred from humans and taheen, but judging from their behavior, here's what I think.
Since the Taheen do not rever humans, they act similar (in my eyes, at least) to most of the demonic enemies in the books / rest of the King universe, so in my opinion they are not related to the Can-Toi in any biological sense. They are most likely some kind of creature or demon, perhaps one that evolved (if demons do evolve, and what's to say they don't?) from some ancestor of the prim, but now live in mid-world. They must be very old, as a species, since they seem to be pretty widespread across Roland's universe, (Roland recounts seeing a taheen as far back as the Mohaine desert.)
As for the Can-Toi, as has been mentioned in the books and on here, they revere humans, and try to emulate them (in weird ways, I admit). As the Low-men, they drive loud cars and wear bright colors, and it makes me wonder why, exactly? Could they do this because perhaps they were not able to before? (Kind of like a "Holy crap, I've been in the desert so long, now I'm gonna drink a ton of water round the clock, just cause I can!)Their behavior (and appearance) point towards genetic mutation, possibly by the Great Old Ones. In my mind, the Can-Toi were created (for whatever purposes, but most likely to try to understand / recreate the taheen) by the GOO and were never quite perfected as a species (as noted by the teeth growing out of the sides of their heads, and their generally unpleasant appearances) and so most of them were either destroyed or exiled by the GOO. Some were perhaps forced underground or in hiding in cities like Lud, where they had to hide themselves by wearing dark or drab colors and resorting to inconspicous methods of travel (carts, bikes, etc.) if they were living in or under the cities at the time. They wear the bright colors and drive the loud cars because to them it's like stretching long and hard after having been cramped in a cupboard for months, they are free from their former opression and have sided with the King to guarantee their new freedom. They still emulate humans because they once were human and feel that to attain that form once again they might be accepted back into normal human society (how little of it there is left in mid-world.)
As for their physical appearance, I do think they are literally rat-headed. I think it speaks a little of their origins to, as the GOO might well have used rats or mice in their genetics experiments, and never perfected the rat/human hybrids so they never moved on to another animal. As for the masks fitting their faces and appearing convincing, it's the fact that they ARE indeed so convincing that tips me off that they may be glammers. You don't notice until you get close that it's a mask, but I don't believe I've ever seen a truly convincing "human" mask that couldn't be spotted a mile away. Their false faces would be seen for what they are too easily to be useful, whether their faces fit them perfectly or not. Most likely they are either enchanted relics from the king or from the GOO.
Anyways, just my two cents.
Um, just gonna toss in that Taheen ain't restricted to animal head/human body but also animal body/human head.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
