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Thread: Patrick Danville General Discussion *SPOILERS*

  1. #51
    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBlaze View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    When Susannah realised that Patrick could do anything with an ordinary pen and some paper I was sure like hell that she would ask him to draw her legs so she could walk again.
    Was I the only one to think that?
    Anyway... why did she ask it? It wasn't important for her anymore? I can't imagine it didn't come to her mind when it was my very first thought.
    I thought she would ask that, and for Roland's fingers back.

    I actually read somewhere that SK actually wrote it where Roland got his fingers back, but that the editors told him that that would be too cheesy and deus ex machina. I myself think that it was only logical for Patrick to make them whole, but I understand the editors. It would have turned alot of people off of the ending, which was going to be controversial regardless.
    Maybe if that would have happened, Susannah would have given his gun back before she ditched and it wouldn't have ended up in a trash bin.

  2. #52
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    I think approximately the same; I know it never crossed my mind they could ask something for themselves - how could it cross theirs at that point, when the Tower was one step away, and friends had been lost, and the final confrontation with the mad dead king was imminent, and all that? They could have thought of something for themselves if they had been planning on meeting a sorcerer who draws things into life, but as it was, it was a little too sudden, and everything else was way too overwhelming.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #53
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    I think approximately the same; I know it never crossed my mind they could ask something for themselves - how could it cross theirs at that point, when the Tower was one step away, and friends had been lost, and the final confrontation with the mad dead king was imminent, and all that? They could have thought of something for themselves if they had been planning on meeting a sorcerer who draws things into life, but as it was, it was a little too sudden, and everything else was way too overwhelming.
    I think this is it. They all got caught up in and focused on other things. I also feel there are things that Patrick couldn't do as evidenced by not being able to erase the Red King's eyes. Not that he couldn't draw her new legs or himself a new tongue though. Who knows maybe he did draw himself a new tongue after he left Can' Ka No-Rey?
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  4. #54
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wuducynn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    I think approximately the same; I know it never crossed my mind they could ask something for themselves - how could it cross theirs at that point, when the Tower was one step away, and friends had been lost, and the final confrontation with the mad dead king was imminent, and all that? They could have thought of something for themselves if they had been planning on meeting a sorcerer who draws things into life, but as it was, it was a little too sudden, and everything else was way too overwhelming.
    I think this is it. They all got caught up in and focused on other things. I also feel there are things that Patrick couldn't do as evidenced by not being able to erase the Red King's eyes. Not that he couldn't draw her new legs or himself a new tongue though. Who knows maybe he did draw himself a new tongue after he left Can' Ka No-Rey?
    I feel you are right. I didn't understand it but now I think I do.

    Roland would have understood.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBlaze View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    When Susannah realised that Patrick could do anything with an ordinary pen and some paper I was sure like hell that she would ask him to draw her legs so she could walk again.
    Was I the only one to think that?
    Anyway... why did she ask it? It wasn't important for her anymore? I can't imagine it didn't come to her mind when it was my very first thought.
    I thought she would ask that, and for Roland's fingers back.

    I actually read somewhere that SK actually wrote it where Roland got his fingers back, but that the editors told him that that would be too cheesy and deus ex machina. I myself think that it was only logical for Patrick to make them whole, but I understand the editors. It would have turned alot of people off of the ending, which was going to be controversial regardless.
    Just like King. Decides not to give Roland his fingers back and instead
    Spoiler:
    takes the rest of them off by pulling the Rose.
    The wrath of the witch-burners is in direct proportion to the comeliness of the witch.
    Clark Ashton Smith


  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    I think approximately the same; I know it never crossed my mind they could ask something for themselves - how could it cross theirs at that point, when the Tower was one step away, and friends had been lost, and the final confrontation with the mad dead king was imminent, and all that? They could have thought of something for themselves if they had been planning on meeting a sorcerer who draws things into life, but as it was, it was a little too sudden, and everything else was way too overwhelming.
    How is removing the face cancer not asking something for herself? And the door? She asked for an exit. Both of those things were selfish, in my eyes.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  7. #57
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBlaze View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    I think approximately the same; I know it never crossed my mind they could ask something for themselves - how could it cross theirs at that point, when the Tower was one step away, and friends had been lost, and the final confrontation with the mad dead king was imminent, and all that? They could have thought of something for themselves if they had been planning on meeting a sorcerer who draws things into life, but as it was, it was a little too sudden, and everything else was way too overwhelming.
    How is removing the face cancer not asking something for herself? And the door? She asked for an exit. Both of those things were selfish, in my eyes.
    Yes but they both were really necessary. Her legs weren't. Strange but sounds true to me.

    Roland would have understood.

  8. #58
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    I have to re-read the tumor part; as far as I remember now, it was very much the spur-of-the-moment thing, done mostly to keep Patrick entertained, and, while she was at it, to test what he really can do - without which discovery no further victory over the Red King would be possible - and the door was ultimate, final decision, beyond compare with such entities as legs or fingers.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  9. #59
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBlaze View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    When Susannah realised that Patrick could do anything with an ordinary pen and some paper I was sure like hell that she would ask him to draw her legs so she could walk again.
    Was I the only one to think that?
    Anyway... why did she ask it? It wasn't important for her anymore? I can't imagine it didn't come to her mind when it was my very first thought.
    I thought she would ask that, and for Roland's fingers back.

    I actually read somewhere that SK actually wrote it where Roland got his fingers back, but that the editors told him that that would be too cheesy and deus ex machina. I myself think that it was only logical for Patrick to make them whole, but I understand the editors. It would have turned alot of people off of the ending, which was going to be controversial regardless.
    Just like King. Decides not to give Roland his fingers back and instead takes the rest of them off by pulling the Rose.
    Just letting you know Kes, spoiler tags aren't needed in the Dark Tower forum because if you're in here the expectation is you've read the series.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    I have to re-read the tumor part; as far as I remember now, it was very much the spur-of-the-moment thing, done mostly to keep Patrick entertained, and, while she was at it, to test what he really can do - without which discovery no further victory over the Red King would be possible - and the door was ultimate, final decision, beyond compare with such entities as legs or fingers.
    Actually, I think she told him to erase the mark because she didn't like to see her face in the picture like that. It was only when he rubbed it out that they found out it it would remove her mark for real. He did draw the buffalo closer before then, but they didn't notice it at the time. They clocked the fact the buffaloes were closer but didn't put the two together, assuming they're original perception of distance was wrong.

    As for drawing parts of body back, I'm not convinced Patrick can do that. In all the times Patrick alters stuff, it's usually to capture what's there and remove something or move it about. When Patrick drew the buffaloes closer, they were moved closer. A new herd didn't appear. In the case of CK and Suze, Patrick captured them on paper (quite literally) and removed something (pretty much everything as far as CK was concerned.) The only possible exception is Susannah's Unfound door, but how do we know that wasn't the door from the cave?

    Of course, the question still remains, why did Susannah not ask Patrick? They could have tried after all. I'm not sure it even occurred to her to be honest. I think by this time in life her lack of legs were almost part of her identity she was so used to her situation. Even if she had thought of it, I'm not convinced she would have asked, for reasons others have given. I think she would have found it inappropriate. (Not that I agree.)

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    Hell, I woulda asked!!! I would think the chafing from the leather straps and being carried around would've left awful painful blisters that eventually would probably end up getting infected. Then they would have find a door to get more drugs to eradicate the infection.

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    Default A question about patrick and susannah

    When patrick erased her cancerous sore thingy, why didnt he draw her some legs????
    if the worlds gonna end then let's get it over with, i got shit to do

  13. #63
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    I think somebody asked that once before and the general consensus was that if it was in his power to do so (and it well might have been) it would have been up to Susannah to ask for them and she didn't.

  14. #64
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    yes I agree. She could have asked but didn't.

    I'll see if I can find that question and get you some more answers, flaggwalkstheline.


    EDIT:

    here's the link. I'll merge this thread after you have a chance to see the link.



    Lalalalaaaa, lalalalaaa
    Lalalalaaaa, lalalalaaa



    sugarpop <3

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    shrewd and knavish sprite flaggwalkstheline will become famous soon enough flaggwalkstheline's Avatar

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    ok that answered it my thread can get erased or merged or whatever, thanx
    if the worlds gonna end then let's get it over with, i got shit to do

  16. #66
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    For that matter, why didn't Patrick just draw for himself a door back to home earth long, long ago?
    It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
    A whole lot more than riches and muscle.

    The hands of the many must join as one.
    And together we'll cross the river.

    Puscifer, "The Humbling River"


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    all of this could be answered if only sai king would be kind enough to tell us the story of what happened to patrick danville that eventually led him to be taken by dandello sometime after insomnia
    if the worlds gonna end then let's get it over with, i got shit to do

  18. #68
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woofer View Post
    For that matter, why didn't Patrick just draw for himself a door back to home earth long, long ago?
    It didn't come to his mind.

    Roland would have understood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Woofer View Post
    For that matter, why didn't Patrick just draw for himself a door back to home earth long, long ago?
    It didn't come to his mind.
    That, and he didn't know he had the power. It was Susannah and Roland who determined that. Even when he used the power, I'm not sure he really knew things had changed. There was a bit where it states something along the line that in his mind it was always that way afterwards.

    Also, to draw the door I think he had to draw the right door. As I said earlier, I'm not sure he actually creates new things, he just captures what is there already.

  20. #70
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brainslinger View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Woofer View Post
    For that matter, why didn't Patrick just draw for himself a door back to home earth long, long ago?
    It didn't come to his mind.
    That, and he didn't know he had the power. It was Susannah and Roland who determined that. Even when he used the power, I'm not sure he really knew things had changed. There was a bit where it states something along the line that in his mind it was always that way afterwards.

    Also, to draw the door I think he had to draw the right door. As I said earlier, I'm not sure he actually creates new things, he just captures what is there already.
    You can be right. And we mustn't forget that it's always much easier to destroy things than to create them. Patrick's power seems to be big but I guess it has very serious limits.

    Roland would have understood.

  21. #71
    Jareth's Goblin Queen soylentjillian is on a distinguished road soylentjillian's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by flaggwalkstheline View Post
    all of this could be answered if only sai king would be kind enough to tell us the story of what happened to patrick danville that eventually led him to be taken by dandello sometime after insomnia
    Hopefully he will. He managed to throw a short story about Dinky Earnshaw in his last anthology.

    Susannah is a character that I loved in all books but this one. I feel that she should have stayed with Roland and it pissed me off that she abandoned him for the doppelgangers of Eddie and Jake. She was so selfish in asking for an out; she had made it that far.

    My theory as for not drawing legs or tongues or fingers--I think he can only erase or edit, not add on to. If anyone is an anime nerd and watches Full Metal Alchemist, they have something called the equivalent exchange for alchemy-you can't make something from nothing
    Spoiler:
    but of course the philosopher's stone lets you do that, but steals lives from the other version of Earth
    . Therefore, he could probably banish Susannah's tumor, but he couldn't materialize human bits.

    (Unless he did that at some point and I forgot)
    Quote Originally Posted by Melike View Post
    Then, I call you Goblin Queen.

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    Well, he drew the door for Susannah to go through. Creation or depiction of that which was already in that spot?
    It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
    A whole lot more than riches and muscle.

    The hands of the many must join as one.
    And together we'll cross the river.

    Puscifer, "The Humbling River"


  23. #73
    Gunslinger Apprentice Tik will become famous soon enough Tik's Avatar

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    Simply put, Patrick Danville cant create anything. His power is one of moving. Everything he achieves is done by movement (for example, the buffaloe are moved closer when Patrick draws them).

    Even when he erases things, he's only moving them into todash space. Roland muses that the Crimson King eyes will remain forever on the balcony whereas his body will eternally wander "the space between the worlds."

    The novel also makes it clear that Patrick must draw the subject perfectly. He cant draw Rolands fingers or Susannahs legs back onto their bodies because he doesn't know what they look like. And even if he could find out how they looked like, his power is movement and the lost body parts wont be in such good shape by that point.....you dont want to reattach decomposed legs to your body at the best of times.

    As for the Unfound Door.....well, its the one from the cave. After Susannah describes perfectly what it looked like (even the symbols for unfound), Patrick draws it and it appears:

    "And standing not ten feet from that fire, behind the electric cart, was a door Roland had last encountered in Calla Bryn Sturgis, in the Cave of the Voices."

  24. #74
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    good logic Tik
    Now I have peace with Patrick's abilities.

    Roland would have understood.

  25. #75
    Traveler rwr is on a distinguished road

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    Default Where is Patrick Danville first mentioned?

    I've been puzzled by something for a long time. After Susannah and Roland defeat Dandelo, they find Patrick Danville in a cell in the basement.

    In fact Roland's first works to him are: "No offense, Patrick. Is thee Patrick? Is thee Patrick Danville?"

    I know that Patrick Danville appears in the novel 'Insomnia', but when prior to this instance is Patrick ever mentioned or discussed with Roland? Why would he suspect or recognize the man in the cell as Patrick? I don't recall any prior references to Patrick in the Dark Tower or any of the preceeding Dark Tower books.

    Help!:

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