Greta Shaw

[obscurejude]

A quick word:

Yes, she led him on, and when he responded in typical child fashion (by wanting more), she didn't give it to him.

"First comes smiles, then comes lies, next comes gunfire" -Roland

I think this is a good metaphor for what postmodernist philosopher Richard Englehardt calls "contracting for morality." We all pleasantly muddle along, but the majority of it is bullshit. Genuine benevolence is earned and is cheapened by the majority of the way people act. So, yes, most nice people lead one another on, to act contrary would be to ensure mutual self destruction. No time for further elaboration.

so in short, she molded Jake into what he is (or was ).
pay it foreward?

I honestly don't understand a word that you said.

[wildfire1290]

so in short, she molded Jake into what he is (or was ).
pay it foreward?

So despite her "confusing behavior" she molded Jake into a gunslinger? Ha ha never thought about it that way.

[razz]

not really what i was saying. i was simply interpreting what others were saying. but i suppose that summarizes it. i personally see not significance in her.

[LemurJones]

I think Greta wasn't really a particularly good person... just a decent one. She saw a hole in Jake's life, and even though she didn't take on the role of a mother, I think she tried to treat him like a human being. Jake didn't become a gunslinger because she'd been there- that's like saying Roland only became Roland because of Hax- but he became a mature little boy instead of an immature little boy because of it.

If Greta hadn't been around, Jake might have been less considerate and less able to place his trust in Roland, but he would still be Jake.

[sarah]

I think she just felt obligated to fill in some gaps bc Jake's parents were such bastards. I don't think there was anything virtuous about what she did. I think she's in the story, only to further point out how much Jake's parents sucked. I would never call her his mother, or even his friend. She was just a weak person, who probably made things worse by confusing Jake. She should've just acted like his babysitter. I bet there were many times where Jake wanted to get closer to her (because she acted like more than a nanny) only to be disappointed when she wouldn't meet him all the way. Fuck her.

yes! thank you obscurejude, thank you. I agree 100% with you. Everytime I read the word 'bama I just rolled my eyes.

yes, she felt sorry for him but not really. so yes. fuck her and her stupid 'bama talking shit.

there, i said it. Hmpt!

I honestly don't understand a word that you said, but I think you're a cool kid.

[obscurejude]

You made my night Maerlyn. Thank you.

[jayson]

I think she just felt obligated to fill in some gaps bc Jake's parents were such bastards. I don't think there was anything virtuous about what she did. I think she's in the story, only to further point out how much Jake's parents sucked. I would never call her his mother, or even his friend. She was just a weak person, who probably made things worse by confusing Jake. She should've just acted like his babysitter. I bet there were many times where Jake wanted to get closer to her (because she acted like more than a nanny) only to be disappointed when she wouldn't meet him all the way. Fuck her.

The jury is still out for me on this one, but I am definitely trending towards this viewpoint. I do think it was somewhat important that somebody showed some legit compassion towards Jake just so he was somewhat familiar with the concept since his parents sucked ass, but I think anything more than that is overstating Greta's importance. Jake would have been ready to be the Gunslinger he was with or without Greta because Roland [his "true father"] prepared him well.

[razz]

maybe we should get a poll on this.

[The Lady of Shadows]

maybe we should get a poll on this.

maybe you should go watch hockey.

[obscurejude]

I guess the poll would be up to wildfire, but I think it would be a bad idea.

[razz]

maybe we should get a poll on this.

maybe you should go watch hockey.

I am, and the Wings are winnin'

[Darkthoughts]

I also entirely agree with Ryan. I'm going to have to look up the quotes to back it, but there were certain things that I read that made me think "What a heartless cow!" she could see the situation the poor kid was in and yet didn't feel enough empathy to want to help him (which she could easily have done within her work hours by being warmer to him.)

The things you pro Greta guys are bringing up in her defense are only things she was paid to do. She was paid to make Jake snacks, so if he wanted the crusts cut off shes going to do it because thats how she amkes her money, not because she was a sweet old lady.

I'll be back with the quotes...

[obscurejude]

Lisa, I know exactly what you mean.

[razz]

that's why Jake liked her though. she did here job, and she didn't pretend it was anything more.

[ladysai]

that's why Jake liked her though. she did here job, and she didn't pretend it was anything more.

Exactly!
She did her job with some compassionate human traits, and showed Jake that there is 'goodness' in being realistic and practical. She was who she was, and never tried to have him believe she was anything else.

[Darkthoughts]

She wasn't compassionate though, she felt sorry for him but she was a cold fish despite it. I'm not saying she didn't like him, but she was by no means a hero or even a companion.

Here you go:

"Yes. Did my parents ask you to find out what I'd been upto?"
She nodded. No acting, no put-on. It was a chore, like taking out the trash. You can tell me if you want to, her face said, or you can keep still. I like you Johnny, but its really nothing to me, one way or the other. I just work here, and its already an hour past my regular quitting time.

(The Waste Lands).

Jake appreciated her being straight forward, yes. But the debate here is that shes being heralded as a great friend, practically family - which she is not.

[obscurejude]

Jake appreciated her being straight forward, yes. But the debate here is that shes being heralded as a great friend, practically family - which she is not.

Well put dear.

[razz]

then again, Mr. and Mrs. Chambers really weren't Jakes family either. Roland and the rest of the Tet was.

[Darkthoughts]

??? Thats not in question here though.

[razz]

isn't it, darkthoughts, isn't it?

[obscurejude]

No, it isn't, but your ability to read comprehensively may be a question we are now considering. I suggest taking one of those SAT prep courses if you haven't graduated from high school yet.

[wildfire1290]

I don't think that a normal house keeper would stay up with Jake and calm him down when he had a nightmare though...

[wildfire1290]

Also, how do you make a poll for this thread?

[Jean]

Also, how do you make a poll for this thread?

I think you ask a mod. What options would you like to see there?

[wildfire1290]

Also, how do you make a poll for this thread?

I think you ask a mod. What options would you like to see there?

Maybe just a poll asking if Greta was important to the story in a positive way, a negative way, or it just didn't really matter what she did.