What was her importance in Jakes life. I know she pretty much acted as Jakes parents but was she really that important in the series?
Greta Shaw
What was her importance in Jakes life. I know she pretty much acted as Jakes parents but was she really that important in the series?
Opinion in politics, and politics, is an evil which has caused many a fellow to be hung while he’s still young and pretty.
Greta Shaw was a HUGE influence in Jake's life.
She was the only adult Jake was close to. They shared secrets, and memories.
I've often wondered if Greta wasn't a bit player for the White, specifically placed in Jake's life for his nurturing and protection in the years before his time to meet Roland.
considering the parents he had, would jake have been able to be an instrument of the white without greta's involvement? it's true she maintained her distance in most ways, but she showed him love, compassion, and nurturing. i think she gave him the basic tools he needed to become a gunslinger. in many ways, she was his mother like roland was his father.
I must agree with the others. She was damn important.
She showed Jake that there are people who care about each other there are people who can think of others and not just of themselves and she showed Jake that love can be unconditional.
Roland would have understood.
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ladysaiGreta Shaw was a HUGE influence in Jake's life.
She was the only adult Jake was close to. They shared secrets, and memories.
I've often wondered if Greta wasn't a bit player for the White, specifically placed in Jake's life for his nurturing and protection in the years before his time to meet Roland.
turtlesongconsidering the parents he had, would jake have been able to be an instrument of the white without greta's involvement? it's true she maintained her distance in most ways, but she showed him love, compassion, and nurturing. i think she gave him the basic tools he needed to become a gunslinger. in many ways, she was his mother like roland was his father
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lettimust agree with the others. She was damn important.
She showed Jake that there are people who care about each other there are people who can think of others and not just of themselves and she showed Jake that love can be unconditional
Well said by all three of you. Greta Shaw was very important to the series. She helped prepare Jake for his life with Roland
I think I like Turtlesong's explanation the best. Never really thought of it that way. I kinda just saw her (in the beginning) as the only person that loved Jake which made his decision easier to leave and try to open the door that would lead his to Mid-World once more.Originally Posted by turtlesong
Opinion in politics, and politics, is an evil which has caused many a fellow to be hung while he’s still young and pretty.
I think she just felt obligated to fill in some gaps bc Jake's parents were such bastards. I don't think there was anything virtuous about what she did. I think she's in the story, only to further point out how much Jake's parents sucked. I would never call her his mother, or even his friend. She was just a weak person, who probably made things worse by confusing Jake. She should've just acted like his babysitter. I bet there were many times where Jake wanted to get closer to her (because she acted like more than a nanny) only to be disappointed when she wouldn't meet him all the way. Fuck her.
Fuck Greta?
How did Greta confuse Jake? She was the housekeeper...how confusing was that?
She always cut the crusts off the bread, she always brought a snack after school, she always looked at his A papers and put them away.
Seems to me like she was pretty dependable and not too confusing at all.
How did she confuse Jake?
Opinion in politics, and politics, is an evil which has caused many a fellow to be hung while he’s still young and pretty.
there is some grain of truth in what obscure says, but I don't think I share his opinion fully. She was very far from playing anything close to mother-part in Jake's life, but, confusing him with false expectations or not (I got to think of that further), she at least provided some sound foundation that prevented the picture of the world in Jake's mind from slipping into utter chaos. She was common sense incarnate, and a kid does need it, especially when so lonely. He keeps returning to those sandwiches with crust cut off; it's not, of course, a sign of anything "motherly", but I understand that it was one of the very few things in his early life which showed him that caring for other people and taking their needs in consideration is a norm. That was, I think, her part in his life: norm, and common sense.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fuck greta?
she was a weak person?
she made things worse by confusing jake?
i agree that he wanted to get closer to her, he even said as much. but, she was always there for him. she watched movies with him, she praised him, she nurtured him (as much as she was able given that was the housekeeper and not the nanny or the babysitter), and she talked to him straight and without all the confusing shit. in fact, i would say that of all the grownups that jake knew, she was the only one exempt from his famous "i don't like people, they fuck me up" statement.
i would like to hear more on your views about how she confused jake, though. and about how you think she was a weak person. i think those are interesting thoughts and are worth exploring. can you maybe elaborate on those points a little bit?
That's my point. He didn't latch on to Roland because she prepared him in some "motherly way." Jake recognized Roland as authentic: what you see is what you get.
Remember the mind trap scene. Ms. Shaw felt obligated to stay while he was having nightmares, she should've just left. What that does to a kid is make him secure, only to have him robbed of it the next time he needs it (when she doesn't feel obligated).
Again, fuck her. I don't know why all you like her so much. :shrugs:
Yes, fuck Greta Shaw. I said it again. I think that's 3 x's.fuck greta?
she was a weak person?
she made things worse by confusing jake?
i agree that he wanted to get closer to her, he even said as much. but, she was always there for him. she watched movies with him, she praised him, she nurtured him (as much as she was able given that was the housekeeper and not the nanny or the babysitter), and she talked to him straight and without all the confusing shit. in fact, i would say that of all the grownups that jake knew, she was the only one exempt from his famous "i don't like people, they fuck me up" statement.
i would like to hear more on your views about how she confused jake, though. and about how you think she was a weak person. i think those interesting viewpoints and are worth exploring. can you maybe discuss that a little bit?
She was never "there for Jake" She just confused him.
How else do you explain a kid falling in love with a gunslinger? Everyone in Jakes life was fake except Roland.
Excellent point, Jean. Greta gave Jake a sense of what a 'normal' person with common sense acts like.
Do you say gunslinger because he is a cold blooded murder? If so it just seems semi baffling to me because what someone dose should not affect their personality and the capacity to care. Roland is still a good person and looked out for Jake even if he didn't show it all the time. I can see how Greta was there to look out for Jake and care for him, even though she was a house keeper. Her job title didn't make a difference.
Opinion in politics, and politics, is an evil which has caused many a fellow to be hung while he’s still young and pretty.
Actions define a person, I don't agree with your dichotomy. Greta acted like a mother when she shouldn't have.
She provided him normality if making a child even more indelibly aware of their alienation from their parents is "normal."
I think I qualified what I said about Roland several times. "Authentic" there I said it again.
I don't think she behaved more than a nanny. She behaved like a typical good nanny and Jake knew it, too.
Roland would have understood.
So do you just think that no one should have looked after him when his parents were not doing that then?
Opinion in politics, and politics, is an evil which has caused many a fellow to be hung while he’s still young and pretty.
I think that would have been better than the demon from the prim, Greta Shaw. Confusion isn't good for kids, in my opinion. Their innocence, exist in part, due to their naivete of the existential reality of the world: chaos.
Roland is exactly who he says he is, as evidenced by his actions. That's why Jake loved him instantly.
But where did she behave more than a nanny? Should she have put poison on the bread or what? She was such a typical nanny I think... no more no less.
Last edited by Letti; 12-11-2008 at 04:34 AM.
Roland would have understood.
Then why are we even talking about it? A regular nanny is pretty boring.
I guess I hate nannies, if what you say is true.
Last edited by Letti; 12-11-2008 at 04:33 AM.
I think most of the people are regular still I like them and I am interested in them.Then why are we even talking about it? A regular nanny is pretty boring.
I guess I hate nannies, if what you say is true.
Roland would have understood.
Well, Letti, I don't know what else to say. My words seem clear when I read them back to me and I'm sober. Plus, I had a nap and am pretty lucid.
it wasn't confusion. It was precisely the opposite: showing him that there are sane, safe, and sound things in the world. Her never going beyond her duties (and emphasizing it) was one of those sound things. He lived in confusion, and she offered him a bit of firm ground in the middle of that swamp he was living in. She was authentic, and probably that's why Roland didn't strike him as a freak: he had already been prepared for authenticity. Her staying with him on that night was something a normal grown-up would do for a kid. The "further alienating him from his parents" part hardly comes in here: a kid's life isn't reducible to his relations with parents. Here it was his relations with fears (which parents had managed to build), and she gives a perfect example of how important a sane grown-up is in the life of a child.
Norm, common sense, sanity are key-words; as opposed to everything Jake had to deal with in his every-day life.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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