Ka

[Matt]

it does not mean they should accept the rest automatically and blindly

That piece of you post was all I meant.

If my beliefs don't seem consistent to you, that is nothing I would lose sleep over or expect you to change. Being able to exchange opinions without the expectation of changing anyone is what has always been cool about these conversations to me.

I take my own beliefs very seriously but that's me. I don't expect anyone else to because they are built on personal experience.

So I may be unclear on what the issue with the current conversation is. Is it personal beliefs, or what we are calling them or the idea that we are individually inconsistent in small ways.?

[Jean]

If my beliefs don't seem consistent to you, that is nothing I would lose sleep over or expect you to change.

It is a pity. If my beliefs didn't seem consistent to you, I certainly would lose sleep over that, because I respect your opinion. Likewise, my idea of respecting a person's position is discussing it, not just taking it into consideration. I thought that's what we were here for?

So I may be unclear on what the issue with the current conversation is. Is it personal beliefs, or what we are calling them or the idea that we are individually inconsistent in small ways.?

The only point was that everyone who has professed belief in Ka here doesn't really seem to mean Ka as described in the book. Ka of the book is a complex concept that includes lots of aspects. Taking one and ignoring others seems to me inconsistent. For example, most of discussion is not about Ka as a whole, it is about the existence and role of free will.

If someone accepts one part of a system of beliefs, it does not mean they should accept the rest automatically and blindly

That piece of you post was all I meant

If someone suddenly finds out s/he believes in immortality of soul, s/he doesn't have to immediately accept the rest of Christianity, immaculate conception, Trinity and all. S/he might as well consider Islam, Zoroastrism etc. The same with Ka: acceptance of one aspect doesn't have to entail automatic acceptance of all the others. I don't know why this statement suddenly called such controversy.

[Matt]

Oh no, not at all. And I do respect you and everyone else on the site Jean.

To me, respect in someone's opinion means that just because it seems inconsistent to me, doesn't mean it actually is. That is perspective and I would never assume that I fully understood someones beliefs enough to pass judgment on weather or not it is consistent.

I just wasn't sure where anyone said that anyone else should accept an option lock stock and barrel.

But its not controversy, just a discussion

[Jean]

To me, respect in someone's opinion means that just because it seems inconsistent to me, doesn't mean it actually is. That is perspective and I would never assume that I fully understood someones beliefs enough to pass judgment on weather or not it is consistent.

Definitely so; which also means that if anything raises questions, everyone has perfect right to ask them - just to be able to fully understand where someone stands.

And, of course, it also should be understood - I think we might even think of placing it somewhere in Big Golden Letters as a universal rule of the boards - that

everyone who expresses his/her opinion fully understands that s/he does not possess the Absolute Truth and begs everyone to perceive whatever s/he says as an invitation to further discussion

(at least, that's how I feel)

[Matt]

I believe we are in total agreement here Jean and are just under a miscommunication.

I totally agree with the above

[Jean]

In fact, we've been both saying the same* in different words. It often happens when people don't see each other, especially when one of them isn't a native speaker... or is, God forbig, a bear...

*on all subjects except Ka, of course...

[Odetta]

Here's a question... do you think Stephen King believes in "Ka"?

[Jean]

I don't.

What I think is that Ka is one of the many beliefs existing in Roland's world, akin to citizens of Lud's belief in demons inside the drums, and as deadly as that. I think when that belief became predominant, it may even have led to the world moving on... although I got to give it more thought. The whole saga for me is about Roland overcoming his false beliefs, fighting the fascination of Ka, and finally learning to exercise his free will, thus eventually becoming free.

[Odetta]

I think that in some ways, Roland's constant use of Ka as his answer for everything is, in a small way, SK's reflection of how some people use "god" as their answer for everything.

[Matt]

Good question. I think the religious undertones in all of Kings books say a little about his beliefs. I always considered him a basically religous person.

Weather he believes in Ka, I am not sure but I am convinced that he does believe in the multi-verse

[Jean]

I think that in some ways, Roland's constant use of Ka as his answer for everything is, in a small way, SK's reflection of how some people use "god" as their answer for everything.

Exactly! Or "karma", or, if they are not religious, "nature", or "that's how it is", or any other entity that fits to explain everything if people don't want to think. It doesn't mean that notions themselves are not sound; it's their use in the way that would relieve people of independent thinking that I object to.

Good question. I think the religious undertones in all of Kings books say a little about his beliefs. I always considered him a basically religous person.

Weather he believes in Ka, I am not sure but I am convinced that he does believe in the multi-verse

I think the same, although I am pretty sure he doesn't believe in Ka. Multiverse is, however, an entirely different kettle of fish... I am inclined to rather like the idea of a universe organized in such a complex way. Luckily, the two concepts are mutually independent.

[Matt]

Totally independent

[Daghain]

For me, there really IS no difference between organized religion and a country fair prestidigitator. But hey, that's a whole different thread.

I think things do move in a circle. We're born, we die, another is born, etc. What goes around comes around. The energy you put out, positive or negative, comes back to you.

But I also don't really have a lot emotionally invested in any particular belief system in the first place. The idea of a multiverse is kind of cool, though.

[Matt]

I think there are billions of Matts living in billions of time lines and I got the best shake.

I bet I'm with Dora in 90% of them too

[Daghain]

LOL If that's the case, I want to find out in which world I'm a rock star.

[Odetta]

that's in my world, babycakes!

[Matt]

I'm totally keystone Matt.

[Letti]

This thread is living, huh?

[Letti]

YOU are learning something by working towards another's ka. YOUR ka is to work towards a goal. You may not gain monetarily, or spiritiually, but at some point the work you did there may build on a future work, something that forwards YOUR ka.

You say I fight to be able to learn something that can become important in my life.

As I see life I learn to be able to fight for something that can become (or is already) in my life.

[Daghain]

The quest for knowledge is generally an uphill battle.

[Letti]

BUMP.
Because we have so many new people around and I am interested in their opinions about the topic.

[HanzouNorak]

to decribe the course of events, ones fate, and hinting that all conicidences are linked together creating history.

[ATG]

KA is short for karma.

Sorta.

[Malficeus]

i wish free will existed but since God has created all things he knows all things meaning knowing what we are going to do, destroying the fact we dont have control so yes Ka is Fate in Roland's world which mean it is true

[Storyslinger]

Of course, and it is my answer to everything.