Doctor Who: now without DT additives!

[DoctorDodge]

Ah yes, the classic 'Doctor, you bastard!!!' moment! Yes, I did feel that way, and honestly, I loved it! I'd say it was less Eccleston and more McCoy's Doctor that echoed: a Doctor who would make the most impossible and darkest decisions too easily, a man who would keep secrets from, lie to and even brutally betray his companions to 'save the day'. (The ending of The Curse of Fenric is a fantastic example of this, and I've been listening to a couple of McCoy audios where his manipulative nature backfires against him in a big way.) In fact, the 11th Doctor has been doing this a fair bit: lying to Amy in series 5 about why he wanted her as a companion, keeping secret from her what he had worked out in the first half of series 6, and now the betrayal at the end of last night's. It's these little moments of darkness and alienness that make me prefer the 11th Doctor so much more than the 10th. Most of the time, he is still a hero, and I love that, but sometimes, he will do things in a way you're not sure you can agree with. Love it!

[candy]

I think I need to watch it again, at the moment I dont seem to be feeling the love that you guys are all showing???
But I have never been Amy's biggest fan, so that may have a lot to do with it - and there didnt seem to be a lot of the Doctor in it again - which seems to be my biggest gripe with the 11th Doctors story lines.

I hope that the Rory bits are carried forward in this though, and he continues to expand as a character, it would be a shame to film all of that and then not use it as a continueing character development story line.

I will say though, this episode showed the best ageing make up I have every seen!!!!

[DoctorDodge]

This was an episode that was hugely focused on Amy and Rory, certainly, but I don't think that's common. The only other example I can think of is A Good Man Goes to War, where he doesn't appear for 20 minutes, and even then, it's not only deliberate, but it shows the kind of legend that's been built around the Doctor by so many people across so many worlds, so I can't argue with that. And the ending and the decision he gives to Rory more than made up for that. Certainly, I thought it was a large improvement on last week's rather predictable ep.

And even if you don't enjoy Pond candy, you gotta love the surrealist feel and the timey-wimeyness of the story, at least! I know I did!

[SigTauGimp]

Ah yes, the classic 'Doctor, you bastard!!!' moment! Yes, I did feel that way, and honestly, I loved it!

That's exactly what I was thinking!

[flaggwalkstheline]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81gFI...2lSqw&index=32 the episode reminded me of one of my favorite scenes from classic (and I mean ancient classic) dr who

[candy]

I loved that Flagg, thanks for sharing

I really need to get my arse in gear and start getting the dvds

[DoctorDodge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81gFI...2lSqw&index=32 the episode reminded me of one of my favorite scenes from classic (and I mean ancient classic) dr who

Oh, I love that scene. Have you listened to An Earthly Child flagg, which has Susan reunited with the Doctor in his 8th incarnation? It takes a while for the two to meet, but when they do, god, it's emotional!

[DoctorDodge]

Currently listening to a 6th Doctor story where, for possibly the first time ever, there's a practical reason for 6 wearing that god awful coat! Also, there's a lot of timey-wimeyness given in the first twenty minutes when he meets a character from a Big Finish story released a couple of years ago. She recognises him, but from his point of view, this is his first time meeting her.

God, i do love my timey-wimeyness!

[candy]

Thanks to bev for sharing on his FB page, not sure if its been posted before

http://youtu.be/6pglAT7Daxc

Love his speech between around 1.30 and 2 (explaining why Amy)

[DoctorDodge]

Oh yes! I love this scene! Not really a deleted scene, just one created for the dvd, (I'm still shocked at why they didn't include the real deleted scenes on that set!), but it's still a fantastic scene! Agreed on the Doctor's speech, and I love all the companions that get shown, too.

[Bev Vincent]

John Barrowman thinks the next Doctor should be a woman. Or him in a dress.

[candy]

now why does that not surprise me

I don't think the doctor should ever be a woman, it changes the whole dynamic of the show.

[DoctorDodge]

My Big Finish cds arrived today from my current subscription, which includes stories from the past 6 months and 6 more cds to come until January. These include the finale to the 6th Doctor season I've recently been listening to, a complete 5th Doctor season of stories, and an anthology of one part 6th Doctor stories. Honestly, the one I'm most excited about though is Robophobia, a 7th Doctor story that's a sequel to one of my all time favourite stories of the Tom Baker era, The Robots of Death. Was a bit sceptical at first, then the ton of excellent reviews started coming in. Now rewatching the original story, not so much as a refresher so much as the simple fact that I haven't watched it in far too long. Definitely a large mistake on my part!

[DoctorDodge]

Listened to Robophobia today. A surprising and rather excellent sequel, I must say. And McCoy was excellent in his role of mysterious 7th Doctor, who was more of a background figure than anything else, but for his Doctor, especially on his own, I'd say it works very well.

Speaking of the 7th Doctor, I was reminded of one of my favourite moments of his, specifically the ending of The Curse of Fenric

Spoiler:

when he breaks Ace's faith in him to save her life

. Now it's funny, as I was thinking of this moment for no reason whatsoever, and then on tonight's episode, I got deja vu

Spoiler:

when the Doctor broke Amy's faith in him

. I don't think it worked quite as well here emotionally, surprisingly, but it did make more logical sense.

Was anyone else surprised but not shocked at how it ended? To be fair though, it did seem to have been building towards this for some time.

Spoiler:

The sense that the Doctor has had Amy and Rory around for far longer than he should, when they've been married and had a daughter together, and yet they're still fighting terrible dangers and risking their lives with every single day that they stay in the TARDIS. Last week's ep seeme to have really been building towards this, when pressing the wrong button can ruin a companion's life, and Rory made it clear that he didn't want to continue travelling if they were still going to be exposed to dangers from the Doctor's recklessness. Then the TARDIS crew got put into danger simply because of Amy's faith in the Doctor and her travelling with him. Even the Doctor decided that enough was enough. So it wasn't a big, emotional departure, at least not for me, but a logical one, given recent events. (Although seeing the Doctor on his own once again did tug at the heartstrings for me, I must admit.)

As for the rest of the episode, god that was freaky and surreal! Much freakier than Night Terrors, for me at least. Hell, even the dolls were freakier, I think!

Although it has to be said that that was a terrible gorilla costume!

[SigTauGimp]

Yes, the gorilla costume was completely, utterly terrible.

I'm almost completely in agreement (As usual) with your take on the episode, DD. I was surprised with what happened, but only initially...and even then, it wasn't much of a surprise...more of a "Huh. I thought that would be a few episodes down the line." thing.

Also:

Spoiler:

I also wasn't too emotional about them splitting. The dialogue/acting just didn't pull at my heartstrings like I thought it would. However, I did get a bit teary-eyed in that very last scene, where the Doctor is looking around the empty TARDIS.

To me, it almost looked as if he was trying to glace around at everything with a complete nonchalance...like he was practically forcing himself to see the TARDIS's interior in a detached, objective manner. That was nearly heartbreaking for me.

On a brighter side, I'm excited to see Craig come back into the show. "The Lodger" was one of my favs.

Spoiler:

The one thing that I'm a bit worried about is him possibly becoming the next companion. I like his character and everything, but I just don't think he'd make a good traveling partner with the Doctor.

[candy]

Oh Sig he had better not be!!!!!!!!!!!! I doubt it though as he has his own career

In regards to the ep, agree that is was fantastic and again it reminded me of the older doctor whos. I think Moffit is really starting to come into his own after a very very shakey start. I loved the feel of the episode, I think these last three have been beautifully shot and the scripts have been a amazing.

Spoiler:

The whole scene with the Dr destroying Amy's faith in him, i thought it was magnificent and I am really glad that it didn't descend into soap opera territory with the forced pulling of heart strings (ala RTD) I thought the simpler script made it that much more sadder. And when he called her Amy Williams, well i loved him for that.

In regards to that end

Spoiler:

yes not very surprised at all, and I dont think we have seen the last of them, think they will be back for the final. And if we haven't - I am starting a petition for the return of rory!!

Best bit was when the Dr asked why Rory was not scared, I shouted at the screen - dont you know Rory Williams is the new Chuck Norris

Spoiler:

Oh and the fact this his door was 11 - Anybody got any ideas of what was in the Doctors room? Hubbie thought it was Little Amy when they were in the room with her - but I disagree, I think thats something that going to come back later, poss to do with the ultimate question that will destroy the universe

[alkanto]

I might be in the minority here when I say the ending really got to me. I knew that was coming. I anticipated

Spoiler:

their end as companions as soon as we knew they were having a baby. But, again, I thought it was going to be much further down the road. And I was already emotional from ending with the Minotaur/God/Alien-thing, for whatever reason as well as the scene of breaking faith. Hearing her called Amy Williams was very odd...no more "Come along, Pond"

I think my biggest problem with the scene is that they were trying to be so nonchalant. If it had been a tear-fest with crying and sobbing, I would have been fine. But both Amy and the Doctor were hiding it so well...I've been there, hiding it. It sucks balls. So I was being very much empathetic.

I put this on your page already James, but I do think. it shows good character progression. The earlier incarnations, so much as I have have seen, haven't been nearly so considerate towards their companions. Hell, look at Ten. He freaked out at any mention of her going home, and got her practically killed. Rose got sent off into another dimension. Martha's family got tortured and Martha turned into a militant savant. And yes they had fun. Yes, they had fun. And yes, their lives were better with the Doctor. For a little while at least. But traveling with him caused so much pain and hardship in the end, from him overvaluing his need of companionship over their safety.
For not only the Doctor to realize that they needed to stop and essentially chose for them a new life away from the dangers of the TARDIS, but for the companions to agree with him, despite alternative feelings...it was a big step. It's no longer just a romp around the universe before returning back home for dinner. It's getting serious. And I'm glad they acknowledged that in such a way.

As far as the rest of the ep goes, it was very creepy! I agree, James - much creepier than Night Terrors. And I liked the angle they took with the Minotaur. What impressed me the most though? The cinematography. It was trippy! The episode did a really good job of portraying the insanity of the residents of the hotel. It was all very creepy. I enjoyed the switches between normal perspective and the black-and-white shots of the camera. That was nicely done.

And, of course I am excited for next week! I love Craig (as a one-off companion, of course!) and it looks to be very good!

[Heather19]

I loved the feel of the episode, I think these last three have been beautifully shot and the scripts have been a amazing.

Loved last night! My favorite so far. And I agree with Candy. These have been my favorite episodes of the season. I was getting a little out of touch with the show for a bit, but now I'm fully drawn back in. And as much as I hate for them to leave, I think it's about time the Doctor got a new companion.

How many more do we have before the season ends?

[DoctorDodge]

2 eps left, Heather. 2 eps before the Doctor has a meeting with a certain astronaut in America...

[SigTauGimp]

Spoiler:

Anybody got any ideas of what was in the Doctors room? Hubbie thought it was Little Amy when they were in the room with her - but I disagree, I think thats something that going to come back later, poss to do with the ultimate question that will destroy the universe

I was wondering the same thing.

Spoiler:

He DOES open a door at one point, glance in, and say, "Of course it would be this."...or something along those lines. My personal thought? He saw himself inside the TARDIS. A thin layer of dust over everything, and nothing but darkness outside the windows. No stars, no planets, no adventures. I think I just managed to make myself feel bad for a fictional character.

[DoctorDodge]

I think I just managed to make myself feel bad for a fictional character.

That's just testament to the fantastic writing, STG! Honestly, I think this series just may be becoming one of the darkest and boldest series yet, especially in the recent eps, which seems to have a much more subtle arc going on of ripping apart the image of the Doctor as the embodiment of a true hero. I think I need to watch the God Complex again, since it is the most disturbing example yet, as that's an episode that has really made me wonder about the Doctor's relationship with Amy over the past 2 series. I said that the key scene wasn't as emotional as the scene in The Curse of Fenric that inspired it, and in a way, that's still kinda true, but the more I think about it, the more I begin to realise that the scene in the God Complex is a lot more disturbing:

Spoiler:

whereas in Fenric, the Doctor clearly lied to Ace, and told her afterwards, with the God Complex there is no such consolation - this time, there's the strong possibility that the Doctor wasn't just trying to save his companion, but that he was also telling the truth. Considering the things he said to her, that's a horrible thing to think about.

It's a hugely powerful and dark moment for our main character, and even bolder when you stop to consider that this is a children's show! On one level, anyway. Moments like this tend to push the boundaries of that, which is something I love to see the show do: never forget that the children are one of the biggest audiences in the UK and never go Battlestar Galactica on us, as that's not what Who is, but just push the limits of what can be done in such a series, not just effects-wise but story-wise, too.

[candy]

I need to watch it again, as i think he says something to the Minotaur to explain that he was lieing. But can't be sure till I re-watch

I also want to re-watch for the Dr's room

[DoctorDodge]

If he wasn't lying, it makes even more sense of the dvd scene that Bev posted last week:

"And that's the only reason you took me with you?"
"There are worse reasons."

Now true, the Doctor lying to Amy about his interest in her past and how she doesn't make much sense might be considered a worse reason, but not that much worse. Certainly not as bad as the reason he gave her in the God Complex. But yes, I will need to watch it again to see if he was lying.

[candy]

I have just spotted this

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-rad...redirect=false

Obviously the Guardian would like all viewers to sit in a coma while having their entertainment drip fed to them!!! The piece is written in a very derogatory way I feel.

I love having to think and work my way around my entertainment - hence my love of reading,

All of the above being said though, i have really enjoyed the last few stand alone episodes.

Its been good to have a break from the Arc - however its going to be fun when it comes to an end trying to work stuff out and having debates with you guys

[candy]

Just rewatched

he doesn't mention that he was lieing sorry - he says to the minataur that he has sacrificed her faith in him to give the minotaur space to die. On first watch I just presumed that the way he said it meant he was lieing but he doesn't actually say it

Also glad I went back as the little girl is in Amy's room (must have been nibbling a cheese cracker on first watch) so we still dont know whats in the doctors room, hopefully we will find it

But its not the end of the world if we dont