Doctor Who: now without DT additives!

[candy]

annnnndddd.................... lets not forget rule No 1

The Doctor lies, so who is to say he has been roaming around for 200 years? it could have been a couple of months?

[DoctorDodge]

Not to mention that the "900 years old" thing he first told to Rose was an OBVIOUS lie. For crying out loud, he was 953 in his 7th incarnation! (There's also a neat little explanation given for why his age keeps changing all the time in a McGann audio, which is the easiest: he's been around for so long that he's really not sure how old he is anymore, and tends to, well, round it down a bit.)

Myself, I like to believe that he did travel for a couple hundred years without a companion (he's done it before after all, and no, I'm not referring to Tennant's Doctor, but rather McCoy's), only this time, he and the TARDIS finally decided to just explore. No getting involved, no saving planets, just finally take the chance to see a billionth of all the wonders the universe had to offer. Maybe he did have a couple of adventures along the way, but I like to think that this time was just him acting more as a universal tourist like he wanted to be in the beginning of his journeys, so he wouldn't have needed a companion to save his arse so much. That's my personal theory, anyway.

[DoctorDodge]

So I finally uploaded a new mv, one that might be the most emotional mv I've done yet. Check it out:

[Chap]

Just want to give some thoughts about the latest season.
The first episode blew my mind, I think I watched it 4 times in one day, just amazing
I love the concept of a constant storyline throughout the whole season (granted there were a few "fillers" as well). It gave each episode a lot more meaning,

Spoiler:

rather than just "the doctor goes to [historical time period or wacky planet] and it turns out it wasn't ghosts or demons, just aliens."

I love it when pretty much everything is at stake, and things look so dark that you can't imagine how they will solve this

Spoiler:

then the doctor shows up with a fez and a broom

The Doctor's Wife is probably my favorite "filler episode" from this season.

That said, the last half of the season was kind of an anti-climax for a number of reasons:

Spoiler:

First off, The Doctor ends the last episode of the first half of the season ( ) by saying something like he'll find River. Then the next episode he's back and all "nope, didn't find her". I was kind of expecting to see him travel around and investigate.
Then they RACED through River's backstory way too fast, and even eliminated the chance of her regenerating. I sort of hoped we would see more of her in different forms down the line. I just felt they dropped that story way to quickly and put a little too much focus on "Amy getting in trouble and eventually being saved again" The best episode in the last half is, IMO, the penultimate one (even though I wish the season finale had been more of a two-parter). Craig and the Doctor have a great chemistry, and I hope we'll see more of him. Wouldn't mind a season with him as the companion
And although the way they explained his death made sense, and was expected from the start of the final episode, I sort of wish they hadn't done that. Felt a bit "cheap".

I know I sound negative, but the first half of the season really shot my expectations through the roof. I wasn't convinced of Smith as the Doctor until the second he walked out of that bathroom in the diner. Just brilliant.


oh, and hello

[Heather19]

Welcome back

[alkanto]

What were your thoughts on the other "filler" eps of the later half of the series? I'm specifically referencing two eps here: The Girl Who Waited and The God Complex. Honestly, as much as I adored everything about the first half...those two episodes made the series for me. Of course, it doesn't hurt that I am the world's biggest fan of Amy and Rory, so episodes that deal with them tend to rise up in the favoritism ranks based solely on my fangirlling...

[Chap]

They were both pretty good. Thinking back at them I certainly enjoyed them a lot, but at the time I was sort of tired of seeing Amy getting into trouble again (keep in mind this was the week after she

Spoiler:

got turned into a doll in Night Terrors)

and at that point I felt she had been the victim/princess in need a little too often.

They're both certainly better than The Curse of the Black Spot.

[Chap]

Oh and I use the term "filler" very loosely, as it has a negative ring to it, while a bad Doctor Who episode is still much better than most other TV shows

[DoctorDodge]

I will agree somewhat that I think the arc was better handled in the first half than the second, Chap, and while I enjoyed Let's Kill Hitler, I did have a couple of problems with it too.

Spoiler:

It wasn't the Doctor giving up on River, as I can accept that, with Melody revealing she had always been raised by the Silence as a little girl and finding out the rest of her childhood, the Doctor would accept that there was very little he could do for Melody as a result. It was more Amy's reaction: after a lot of build-up from not just A Good Man Goes to War and the short prequel to LKH, I was expecting a much bigger emotional reaction from her at realising that she'll never get the chance to raise her child. Now although this was partly addressed in the finale with her killing Madame Kovarian in cold blood and revealing she had really been repressing what she was feeling the whole time, I still wished it had been addressed more throughout the last 6 eps.

I was also really dissapointed with the episode Night Terrors, as it really didn't match the rest of the arc in that 2nd half. And considering it was originally intended to be the 3rd ep of the series, that's really no surprise. But I do agree with Fred that The Girl Who Waited and The God Complex were big fat highs for me, for completely different reasons. The Girl Who Waited was a nice emotional ep that handled both the problems with time travel as well as Amy's and Rory's relationship in a big way, and I loved that one easily. The God Complex I really enjoyed the first time, but then I watched it a 2nd and a 3rd and noticed so many tiny details and subtleties in the story that it may grow to be one of my favourite episodes of Who ever. (I still can't believe it was from the same writer of Vampires of Venice...) Closing Time was great, for the reasons you mentioned, but the two eps before I did enjoy more.

There is also an arc from the 2nd half that I really, really enjoyed (and is a big reason why Night Terrors sticks out, in a bad way):

Spoiler:

namely, the fact that the myth of the Doctor and the faith his companions have in him can be a dangerous thing. This was something really introduced in A Good Man Goes to War, but with The Girl Who Waited, we really see how dangerous he is to his own companions, not only causing a version of Amy to grow old on her own but also abandoning her to her fate after promising her he would save her. The God Complex also had so many people trust the Doctor to save them and instead most of them got killed.

Which brings me to the reason why I could just about accept the Doctor cheating death in the finale: over time it's been really building up to the fact that the myth of the Doctor is dangerous, that he's been becoming more and more arrogant and "too noisy". The Doctor wanting the universe to believe he's dead so they can carry on without him and he can return to being nothing more than a traveller not only gives meaning to the whole arc of building towards his "death", but also effectively resets the show and takes away all the "Lonely God" baggage that's been building up since the RTD era. So yeah, the solution was easy, but as you say to be expected, and at least the solution was set up a few eps before the finale, not within the last twenty minutes, as could've been expected if RTD had wrote it (which, as much as I loved his finales, were usually prone to rushed resolutions and would've been incredibly frustrating in this case).

So overall I do prefer the arc for the first half, and you're right, it did raise expectations for the last 6 eps incredibly high, but while I did have a few problems with the 2nd half, I still really enjoyed it. And welcome back, Chap!

[alkanto]

True! I never thought it as negative...at least when DW is concerned! When I use the word, it is generally just for episodes where the plot doesn't wholly contribute to over-arching plot. Given this description (and feel free to ignore me if you have a different clarification for the term!) but, that's why I don't really call The God Complex a filler episode.

Spoiler:

For the entirety of the series, the Doctor is becoming more and more fallible. There's the line in AGMGTW. "He will rise higher than ever before....then fall so much further." He's at a point where he's making mistakes, at the risk of the lives of his companions and those he loves most. He's getting....careless isn't the word I want, but it's the only one I can think of, currently. The God Complex forced him to face this idea, in the breaking of Amy's faith in him. His speech to her/little Amelia is beyond moving. He is no longer a god...merely an alien who travels time and space while taking along the pretty girl. This realization/facing of the facts is what leads him to leave the Ponds behind. This is a huge step in his character development, as compared to times past. He is sacrificing his own petty amusement - in the face that he simply doesn't like traveling alone and gets bored - for the safety of what has essentially become his family. I believe that this is what makes him able to accept his death in The Wedding of River Song, and all the points between here and there. Without this episode, everything (and yet nothing) would have changed.

[DoctorDodge]

True! I never thought it as negative...at least when DW is concerned! When I use the word, it is generally just for episodes where the plot doesn't wholly contribute to over-arching plot. Given this description (and feel free to ignore me if you have a different clarification for the term!) but, that's why I don't really call The God Complex a filler episode.

Spoiler:

For the entirety of the series, the Doctor is becoming more and more fallible. There's the line in AGMGTW. "He will rise higher than ever before....then fall so much further." He's at a point where he's making mistakes, at the risk of the lives of his companions and those he loves most. He's getting....careless isn't the word I want, but it's the only one I can think of, currently. The God Complex forced him to face this idea, in the breaking of Amy's faith in him. His speech to her/little Amelia is beyond moving. He is no longer a god...merely an alien who travels time and space while taking along the pretty girl. This realization/facing of the facts is what leads him to leave the Ponds behind. This is a huge step in his character development, as compared to times past. He is sacrificing his own petty amusement - in the face that he simply doesn't like traveling alone and gets bored - for the safety of what has essentially become his family. I believe that this is what makes him able to accept his death in The Wedding of River Song, and all the points between here and there. Without this episode, everything (and yet nothing) would have changed.

Excellently put, Fred!

[Chap]

I agree that the emotional and "timey wimey" parts of The Girl Who Waited is very good, and very memorable. Maybe I was still disappointed with Let's Kill Hitler and how they just rushed through River's part of the whole arc and thought they could have given that part more time (one more episode) instead of moving on to "they go somewhere and stuff happens" so soon.
I do really like the second arc that you both mention. Where he starts to see the consequences of what he does (which were also some of my favorite parts of Tennant's run) and it takes him to the point here he knows he has to let it end. (until the very convenient solution presents itself )

Come to think of it, I think my main problem was that Let's Kill Hitler kind of... killed .. my expectations. then they were slowly built up only to end in an anti-climax in the finale. IMO.

[alkanto]

The biggest problem with LKH was the title! It was a glaring red herring. I mean,

Spoiler:

Hitler was only in the ep for a few minutes, then Rory shoved him in a closet.

it was only for media buzz, methinks. That being said, I enjoyed it. I just was confused once I found out exactly how misleading the title really was.

[Jean]

I think I will watch some Doctor Who now. I think I might actually like some of it.

[DoctorDodge]

Excellent, bears! Well, remember my recommendations, as those are the eps I think you'd really enjoy. Oh, and there's also The God Complex in series 6, I think you would enjoy that especially. It's one of those little eps that's completely different to any others of the show, and I found it to be very multi-layered and rewarding on repeated viewings. The only problem is that it's not quite as standalone as some of the others, as it's an ep that examines the Doctor's relationship with his companions, but it's a wonderful ep, all the same.

Oh, and I will just say that with nearly all the stories I recommended, be prepared for different actors playing the Doctor than the one you saw in Blink. There's a good reason for it in the story - he is an alien, after all - but I thought I'd let you know, anyway.

[Jean]

oh. I already liked this Doctor.

[DoctorDodge]

Haha, spoken like a true fan already!

Well, the David Tennant eps lasted from series 2 to 4, plus a few special one hour eps afterwards, so you'll see him again in the Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead eps, at least. But the other Doctors are great in their own way.

[Chap]

I would suggest starting from 2005 and watching it from there
It's a daunting task, but so worth it.

[DoctorDodge]

That's what I recommend doing with the classic series, Chap: now that you're up to speed on the new stuff, you should start watching in order from the Harnell era, now that's a daunting task!

[Heather19]

Come to think of it, I think my main problem was that Let's Kill Hitler kind of... killed .. my expectations. then they were slowly built up only to end in an anti-climax in the finale. IMO.

Those are kinda my feelings too. Except I think my issues arised earlier in the season. It just became a little too much for me. And I really didn't like the way they handled River in Let's Kill Hitler. I'm fine with not knowing in detail how she was raised. But I still can't believe they just randomly introduced her as this very important person in both Amy and Rory's life without at least a prior mention of her.

But the second half of the season I really enjoyed up till the last episode. I liked how it ended, but I don't know I felt something was lacking. I still need to go back and rewatch it though.


DD, how many episodes are there that you haven't actually seen yet?

[Chap]

That's what I recommend doing with the classic series, Chap: now that you're up to speed on the new stuff, you should start watching in order from the Harnell era, now that's a daunting task!

I've watched quite a few of the (Tom) Baker episodes, first 40 or something like that. Good stuff, but it takes me forever to get through
also seen a few episodes here and there of various other Doctors.


and I agree with you Heather, they way River had "always been there" just out of the blue felt way too rushed. That's why I wish they would have given her backstory more episodes (or none at all).

[DoctorDodge]

Yeah, but I mean from the very beginning, as I've been trying to do. Puts a whole new perspective on it, just like watching The Empty Child and Blink out of context is different to watching the series in order, if that makes any sense. Only got the first 3 seasons done so far. Actually posted some thoughts a few months back. Really interesting, especially the 3rd season, which was full of peaks and troughs: got to a weak start with pure scifi story Galaxy 4 and historical romp The Myth Makers, but then it lead into the epic The Daleks' Masterplan. 12 eps long, but more than worth the length, especially since it was one of the first stories to truly

Spoiler:

kill off a companion.

Other highs were The Celestial Toymaker and, surprisingly, The War Machines, which I found very run of the mill on its own, but when watched in context actually seems rather refreshing.

[Chap]

I know what you meant, and I agree it's so much better to watch any series from the beginning instead of separate episodes here and there. That's why I started from 2005 when I decided to give Doctor Who a try, even though this was in the middle of the 11th Doctor's run. 2005 is a beginning, for me. Not the beginning, of course.
I chose to check out the 4th Doctor (from his beginning) because that seemed to be everyone's classic favorite.

[DoctorDodge]

Yeah, but you prefer Eccleston to Tennant, so I wouldn't completely trust the majority on this one!

(I say this as someone who prefers Smith out of the 3 from the new series and whose favourite Doctor from the classic would be McGann, as he's fantastic in the audios and makes the one-off movie he did worth watching! Although Tom Baker's first 3 seasons in the show are possibly my favourite seasons of the classic series, I must admit.)

[Heather19]

You have me really curious about The Daleks' Masterplan based on your spoiler. I'm going to have to see if I can find it somewhere. But 12 eps, that's kinda long for me Was it a whole season?