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  1. #51
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    So the crazy mofo did it because he wanted to fell like a homeowner?
    You know what I meant.
    Anyway he might have wanted to take a last look at the world. He was planning to destroy the Tower and I think he was sure he could destroy the whole universe with that, too.

    Roland would have understood.

  2. #52
    Ash seeketh embers razz has a spectacular aura about razz has a spectacular aura about razz's Avatar

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    yeah i know what you meant

    So you're saying he went out there, because he wanted to look at something that he would soon destroy. kind of gloating.
    Beyond the scope of light, beyond the reach of Dark. . . what could possibly await us?
    And yet, we seek it, insatiably. Such is our fate. . .

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    yeah i know what you meant

    So you're saying he went out there, because he wanted to look at something that he would soon destroy. kind of gloating.
    Yeah, just like the killer looks deep into his victim's eyes... full of sick joy.

    Roland would have understood.

  4. #54
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    I figured he went out there to wait for Mordred, maybe not realizing he'd be trapped out there. He wanted Mordred to enter and climb the Tower with him so they could bring it down and rule the ensuing chaos together.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    I figured he went out there to wait for Mordred, maybe not realizing he'd be trapped out there. He wanted Mordred to enter and climb the Tower with him so they could bring it down and rule the ensuing chaos together.
    Why do you think he cared about Mordred at all?

    Roland would have understood.

  6. #56
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    He seemed pretty pissed off when Roland killed him. I'd not go so far as to say he loved him. I don't think the CK loves anything. But I do think the potential of Mordred to help him in his plans meant something to him.

    The CK did plot for Mordred's creation, and I suspect he had more in mind than just creating something that could kill Roland.

    It's something I wish King would have fleshed out a bit more. Mordred seemed a bit too much like an undeveloped afterthought to really figure out much.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    He seemed pretty pissed off when Roland killed him.
    I don't remember it... I need a reread. I remember that he was pissed of when Roland arrived (EEEEEEEEEEEE) but I think the very sight of Roland made him bloody pissed.

    Roland would have understood.

  8. #58
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Roland's presence indeed pissed him off, but I vaguely remember him (the CK) saying some things about Roland killing his son which indicated he was none too pleased about it. I'd need to look at the book to find anything exact, or perhaps someone else will find something and post it.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Roland's presence indeed pissed him off, but I vaguely remember him (the CK) saying some things about Roland killing his son which indicated he was none too pleased about it. I'd need to look at the book to find anything exact, or perhaps someone else will find something and post it.
    I'll check it, too.

    Roland would have understood.

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    Gunslinger Apprentice Bumbler19 is on a distinguished road

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    He seemed pretty pissed off when Roland killed him. I'd not go so far as to say he loved him. I don't think the CK loves anything. But I do think the potential of Mordred to help him in his plans meant something to him.

    The CK did plot for Mordred's creation, and I suspect he had more in mind than just creating something that could kill Roland.

    It's something I wish King would have fleshed out a bit more. Mordred seemed a bit too much like an undeveloped afterthought to really figure out much.
    __________________
    Why do you think he cared about Mordred at all?
    I figured he went out there to wait for Mordred, maybe not realizing he'd be trapped out there. He wanted Mordred to enter and climb the Tower with him so they could bring it down and rule the ensuing chaos together.


    Mordred had TWO purposes, one was to kill Roland, the other was to reopen the door on the balcony.

    The red mark on his foot which turned into (an hourglass? i think? if i remember correctly) when in spider form was a mark of ELD, which would grant access to the tower, and also reopen the door on the balcony.

    That is the reason Walter/man in black/flagg was in the Dogan in fedic... he needed to essentially tear off mordred's spider stomach (where the mark was). In order to obtain a mark of Eld to get into the Tower. Of course the whole thing backfired a bit...

    I remember this whole thing pretty clearly... it was explained awfully thoroughly >.>

    So whether or not CK actually cared for Mordred in particular, I dunno, I just know that he was upset because without Mordred he only had a very, very small chance of reentering the tower, only other way was to somehow obtain Roland's guns as explained by the 3Kings.

    As for why he was out there in the first place... Roland thinks to himself as he passes the second floor (where CK was) he thinks to himself and says something close to "I could go out on the balcony, and take one last look at those beautiful roses, but I won't make that mistake, like the Crimson King." not sure of exact wording...

    To me, that said CK either wanted to literally, like Roland go look at the roses one more time, or at least go and see all that he was attempting to destroy before he destroyed it.

  11. #61
    Gunslinger Apprentice The King of Kings is on a distinguished road

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    But wouldn't that mean he had to enter the Tower in order to get to that balcony in the first place?

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    Gunslinger Apprentice Bumbler19 is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by The King of Kings View Post
    But wouldn't that mean he had to enter the Tower in order to get to that balcony in the first place?
    Well there is two possibilities I think...

    A. it didn't matter that he had a mark of eld, if he renounced the tower it was going to refuse him access, its like he was hoping that he could slip in the door when mordred opened it. Similarly how the 3kings talked about with Roland and his guns.

    B. Remember the torn up baby clothes? other threads have explored the idea that they weren't really Roland's baby clothes, but CK's original mark of Eld... He tore it up for some reason only a luntic can really conclude, and maybe he figured since Mordred was born, going to kill Roland, and then enter the tower, that he didn't really need his own mark anyway.

    Maybe he did go out on the balcony to wait for mordred, but i also thing that CK didn't want to fight Roland inside the tower, for many reasons, cramped, maybe he figured Roland had a better chance inside the tower, so he went out on the balcony to try and take out Roland before he even entered.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumbler19 View Post
    ...Remember the torn up baby clothes? other threads have explored the idea that they weren't really Roland's baby clothes, but CK's original mark of Eld... He tore it up for some reason only a luntic can really conclude...
    Ok, I'm looking for those threads now.

    Currently, I still like the idea that it was because of Roland on his backtrail that the CK looked away, but I must admit that textual points do seem to more support the "homeowner" angle.

  14. #64
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    Surely the CK should have been able to enter the Tower simply because he is Arthur Eld's son (abomination though he is!)
    I think alot of the end game is contradictory and slightly rushed.

  15. #65
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    I think alot all of the end game is contradictory and slightly exceptionally rushed.
    Fixed that for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    Surely the CK should have been able to enter the Tower simply because he is Arthur Eld's son (abomination though he is!)
    I think alot a lot of the end game is contradictory and slightly rushed. But my opinion is always wrong about this kind of thing anyway so I really shouldn't post.
    Fixed that for you
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    Technically the CK still had conscioussness at the "end" of the story, hence him goading roland into facing him on the balcony, I think being bested like that must have really pissed him off but if he had known what Flagg knew judging by his tarot reading of roland I think he would have been a little bit less angry and more "c'mon up! make urself at home!"
    if the worlds gonna end then let's get it over with, i got shit to do

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    Surely the CK should have been able to enter the Tower simply because he is Arthur Eld's son (abomination though he is!)
    I think alot of the end game is contradictory and slightly rushed.
    I don't ever remember reading anything about simply being of the line of Eld. Everything I remember always says something or another about having a sigul. But just because SK didn't write about him having a sigul, doesn't mean he didn't have one, SK just knew it wasn't an important detail to list specifically what it was. Although it makes us all wonder soooo much grrrr

  19. #69
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole "needing a sigul of the Eld" thing was in reference to RF's thoughts about his own planned entrance to the Tower. He was not of the Eld and thus thought he'd need a sigul to get in.

    It also raises the question of whether or not he was even correct in his assumptions. The "rule" was part of his thinking not something out of a "Dark Tower Rules & Guidelines" text. It's like the sticking points some people have with the time issues of the Keystone world. It was never more than speculation on the part of the characters so it need not be fit into and hard and fast rules.

  20. #70
    Gunslinger Apprentice Bumbler19 is on a distinguished road

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    Well... there is also a lot of information that points towards the fact of a sigul is required. True, some things are from characters such as the 3Kings, others are little facts that point toward it... The 3Kings went fairly in depth about Roland's guns(his sigul) and how CK would need them(or his son's sigul) to get back in, if only the line of eld was necessary CK wouldnt need either of their siguls for CK is of the line of Eld.

    Fact that points to it for instance, Mordred wouldn't need a sigul at all. If all he needed to be of was the line of eld... he was CK's son, making him Eld, as well as Rolands making him Eld, the red foot and hourglass held no other importance other than MAYBE the symbolic significance of the painting of mordred standing over the (Pegasus?) But now i'm just pulling at strings.



    I guess I can see your conclusion about Flagg getting the sigul from Mordred scene, and how maybe it was just Flagg's delusion. But I think the 3Kings scene ruins that for me... Ok I guess they could be lying or wrong about it, but I don't think they were about the guns/sigul thing. There is just something about the reiteration that I conclude to be true IMO

    Again this is more of a thought of Roland's but the was tempted to go outside on the balcony but refused and was thinking that he did not want to be trapped there, implying that if he lost his guns to CK, or w/e he wouldn't be able to get back in....

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumbler19 View Post
    ...I guess I can see your conclusion about Flagg getting the sigul from Mordred scene, and how maybe it was just Flagg's delusion. But I think the 3Kings scene ruins that for me... Ok I guess they could be lying or wrong about it, but I don't think they were about the guns/sigul thing. There is just something about the reiteration that I conclude to be true IMO

    ...
    Maybe that's just you knowing SK's style. It does make lots of sense that individual characters may not know everything, and that they may have particular theories based on their own perspectives, but such things rarely happen in King's novels. That's why telepathy and prescience are such great devices for him: One character will decide to think of something by a pet name out of his own history, and then, within a few chapters, everyone everywhere is familiar with it, somehow. There are lots of examples; a tendency that's rather frustrating when we wish to analyze the logic in his series.

  22. #72
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    Kinda like how sometimes they stay in the same place but the dialect slightly changes 50 pages later? XD and other characters use the same dialect and have nothing to do w/ that region XD

  23. #73
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    How about it was Ka that placed the CK on the balcony. The balcony itself was a trap. Whether it was Roland or the CK or whoever. CK fell for the trap thank Gan.

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