8 teenagers beat up another girl to make video for youtube ok girls off the internet

[Nerak]

It is kinda sad. You cannot punish your kids without getting into trouble, but when the kids beat on other kids, they get slapped on the wrist for it.

It's a strange strange world in which we live.

[jemaher]

I totally agree, the kids have personal responsibility.

However, any of us that are parents are fighting an uphill battle against our culture to teach kids to do the right thing.

Its hard but not impossible. I can say with every confindence in the world that none of my three teenagers would ever be involved in such a monstrous act. They may cross the line in some places, but this crosses the line in a way that children should be taught is not okay.

That's why, for me, I would consider the entire blame my own as a parent but because I feel that way. My kids would never have done it.

Its hard, but it can be done if you try. Kids that aren't monsters I mean.

if i have learned anything in over 25 years of parenting it is to never say"My kids would never do..." I can only say they have been brought up to know better.

[Odetta]

I think the problem is that there are no real consequences when kids do bad things. From mild punishments that parents give to mild punishments the court system gives... there's no fear of anything. There should be a little fear to do wrong, I think.

[Matt]

I totally agree, the kids have personal responsibility.

However, any of us that are parents are fighting an uphill battle against our culture to teach kids to do the right thing.

Its hard but not impossible. I can say with every confindence in the world that none of my three teenagers would ever be involved in such a monstrous act. They may cross the line in some places, but this crosses the line in a way that children should be taught is not okay.

That's why, for me, I would consider the entire blame my own as a parent but because I feel that way. My kids would never have done it.

Its hard, but it can be done if you try. Kids that aren't monsters I mean.

if i have learned anything in over 25 years of parenting it is to never say"My kids would never do..." I can only say they have been brought up to know better.

In my case--I can say this.

I wouldn't say they would never steal, or do drugs or be generally unsafe. But I can say they would never be involved in a gang beating.

[Gunslinger_by_Ka]

Well, I know that this is a hot topic, but it has no place on this site. I believe that this is a Dark Tower message board, yes? I can see by the sites title and the word Palaver, which means a serious conversation. Sorry to sound like a super Tower Junkie nerd, but Ka has nothing to do with these troublesom young criminals. They will spend life in and out of prison if this is the best they can do.


Thankee-Sai,
James

[Matt]

We appreciate that James, but after years of being involved in these kinds of things...we have to provide "off topic" conversation to members.

Its far from the main focus however.

Even the official message board for Stephen King has an off topic area.

So feel free to post, they are here for us to discuss.

[Gunslinger_by_Ka]

I am a young parent, still a teenager myself. A parent raises a child as best they can, but children have minds of thier own. They can morph away from thier parents. The girls in the video were obiously angry people. There parents should have seen signs that this was comming and done something about it. I blame it on neglectfull parents. Parents that didn't "want" to see.

[John Blaze]

you're still a rookie.

my parents were great, they did everything right, spent time with us, talked to us, gave us good morals, and I still screwed up.

Sometimes kids know better, but they can do terrible things. It's not always the parent's fault, or the friends. A young person can make bad decisions. Haven't you read It? some of those kids weren't so bad, but Henry bullied them into doing some terrible things.

[Darkthoughts]

But using that example though, the kids that followed Henry had to have felt some connection to him to have been hanging round with him in the first place.

I agree that anyone of these girls could have chosen to act differently at any point, that they have to take responsibility for what they have done - but the parents have to take responsibility too, imo.

You don't have to be an abusive parent to raise an abusive child...clearly the ringleaders (of the girls) have some serious psychological issues...but parents like (to use an SK example like JB) Jake Chambers parents, could easily produce a child who is easily led, looks for trouble to gain attention etc.

I guess its down to whether you're a nature or nuture person, or whether like me you believe its an equal measure of both.

[Telynn]

I heard today they are all being charged as adults. With kidnapping as one of the charges. Pretty serious stuff. Bet they aren't laughing now.

[Unfound One]

I guess its down to whether you're a nature or nuture person, or whether like me you believe its an equal measure of both.

Yup, I'm definitely with you here Lisa. It's both.
Sometimes a bit more of one or the other, but definitely both.

[Daghain]

I heard today they are all being charged as adults. With kidnapping as one of the charges. Pretty serious stuff. Bet they aren't laughing now.

I'll bet they still are. They have NO IDEA how serious this could be. And, from what I've heard, a couple of the parents are just as bad. One of the mothers of these wastes of skin actually said (and I paraphrase, but I'm close), "well, if she couldn't back it up she shouldn't have said it"

WTF????

Just one more argument for forced sterilization, IMHO. The parents AND their demon spawn.

[CPU]

I heard today they are all being charged as adults. With kidnapping as one of the charges. Pretty serious stuff. Bet they aren't laughing now.

I'll bet they still are. They have NO IDEA how serious this could be. And, from what I've heard, a couple of the parents are just as bad. One of the mothers of these wastes of skin actually said (and I paraphrase, but I'm close), "well, if she couldn't back it up she shouldn't have said it"
WTF????

Just one more argument for forced sterilization, IMHO. The parents AND their demon spawn.

I think the bolded section above highlights a HUGE part of the problem, in my opinion. Kids (and adults too ) have been bullying each other since the beginning of time. They've been beating each other up over perceived slights too. I think the difference today is more and more parents, or guardians, are raising their children to not let anyone 'diss' them. I'll probably end up sounding like an old-fogey, but I blame popular-culture for this. So, we have a generation of teens (and adults too) that think if they let someone even say something about them, whether true or not, without retaliation that people won't respect them. So, they get their posse together and put the beat down on someone (or worse). The really baffling part to me is the moronic need to freaking video-tape this behavior and put it on the net. WTF!? It just seems that we have teens/young adults so insecure that they can't take some "name-calling", or whatever without feeling the need hurt someone. Just plain fucked-up in my opinion.

[Matt]

It was right when they decided the old saying "sticks and stone can break my bones but words will never hurt me" was not true.

You wouldn't believe how many times I've heard people say..."but words can hurt you"

My response is always..."only if you let them"

[Mattrick]

When you hear the "blame the internet" spiel from the parents of the victim, it is not encouraging...

(...)
"These Web sites are creating a space for criminal activity, beating, fights," Patrick Lindsay said. "MySpace, MTV's 'Jackass,' they are enticing our children and desensitizing out children. Now, if they create the best shock video, they are the heroes. They think it is top dollar."
(...)[/i]

I think the perpetrators should be punished to the full extent of the law as well, but to put the blame on the internet is preposterous. nobody FORCED these girls to act like animals. i blame the parents of the perpetrators much more than any internet site, violent or not. watching violence does not create violence.

Watching violence doesn't create violence? These sites had played no factor in the attack? Yet they orchastrated the entire thing for the sole purpose of putting the video on youtube.

I fail to see where that connection could have been made...

[Mattrick]

I guess its down to whether you're a nature or nuture person, or whether like me you believe its an equal measure of both.

I believe it's about 15% nature 85% nuture or maybe 25/75. I see genetics in personality traits as no more than predispositions. Children are predisposed to certain characteristics and traits on a genetic level. But I believe that without triggers these genes will play a very minimal role. In other words, if the parents enable these traits in their children they will appear frequently and perhaps dominantely. There is a blue print, a guide for the genetic code when it comes to personality and it's not without it's ability to be revised.


As for media and television...I know they have an effect. While they do not incite violence, they sure don't desist it. Pain and violence has become our entertainment of choice. Of course there will be some tranference from fantasy to reality, especially in the weak minded. There was a case of this guy who was obsessed with Grand Theft Auto and actually took a gun from a cop and killed three or four of them in a police station.

One side feels it's igorant to blame video games and the other feels it's ignorant to ignore it. I agree with both sides. There is no need to send out the martyrs to destroy video games or violence in media and television. It's a matter of proper education in the matter, drawing a clear line of difference between reality and fiction. Video games allow us to do things not possible in real life but it needs to be viewed as entertainment only. Like all things, obsession, delusions and detatchment from reality can happen skewing thoughts and perspectives.

There are a lot of factors as to the effect the media and entertainment have on us as a society and casting blame on one particular facet of this massive category is impossible. It's all equally impactful on the subconcious and concious mind.

Everyone makes a decision and using the media as a crutch for their actions is ridiculous. But some people are mentally unstable enough that such influences may have a dramatic effect. These people are either more common or simply receive more media attention now.

[towerguard]

This is the girl's myspace page - http://www.myspace.com/lovestocheervnl
she has tons of friends right now, from around the world. They're all leaving her very supportive comments.
I think it's cool that the internet is helping to create this "support" for someone who has been wronged.