Alain *serious spoilers*
Big spoilers all around
We can talk about him freely here but what I am really interested in is his death.
We know that he was killed by Roland and Cuthbert accidently.
How could that happen?
I keep thinkinh about it. Roland and Cuthbert were excellent gunslingers (however still young) how could they make such a mistake?
I have no answer, that's why I would like to see yours.
Last edited by Darkthoughts; 12-28-2008 at 11:16 AM.
Roland would have understood.
I had always thought it an illusion or glam of the Red that caused them to mistake him for someone/something else at that critical moment.
It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
A whole lot more than riches and muscle.
The hands of the many must join as one.
And together we'll cross the river.
Puscifer, "The Humbling River"
I'm going with Woofer's post, plus that it happen in the dark of night from what I remember.
so, you can beat gunslingers with glam and darkness? Didn't I always say they were no good...
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That, and a large box of ammo.Originally Posted by Jean
I totally agree, it does seem to be a very rare and strange death and mistake. Maybe it was intentional?
and that's how i see it. i don't remember it being anything other than a pair of tired and worn out gunslingers [Roland and 'Bert] making a tragic mistake that resulted in Alain's demise. if there was glam involved i don't remember it [which doesn't mean it wasn't]
It may have been, but I don't believe the books mention it. I could be wrong. I think it was simple stupid human error.
{sneak in}
Yes, as I recall it was night.
No, I'd say all the conditions have to be right, including battle fatigue and who knows what else. We know precious little of Jericho Hill. That's the problem. We're all speculating.
Exactly, and they can fail. Otherwise, we'd all be reading one short novel about a slew of gunslingers riding victorious to the Tower. In record time and uphill. In the snow. In the dead of winter. At night. And completely unscathed. Okay, okay, I'll stop.
Okay, both Bert and Roland making that tragic an error at the exact same moment just doesn't fly for me - tired or not. Weren't they waiting for word from Alain? No, even tired I don't think they both would have the same mistake at the same moment; thus, I believe a little something else was involved.and that's how i see it. i don't remember it being anything other than a pair of tired and worn out gunslingers [Roland and 'Bert] making a tragic mistake that resulted in Alain's demise. if there was glam involved i don't remember it [which doesn't mean it wasn't]
No, they don't mention anything like that. It's just a gut feeling I have based on my interpretation of the world and characters.
{sneak out}
It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
A whole lot more than riches and muscle.
The hands of the many must join as one.
And together we'll cross the river.
Puscifer, "The Humbling River"
I see that they are humans, of course they are. That's why they are so big in my eyes because it doesn't matter how great they are they are still humans.
BUT
yeah did know that Alain was away
they were a ka-tet they should have felt that he had been coming
and as Woofer has just mentioned how could both of them make such a big mistake at the same time?
Roland would have understood.
And you'd think that Alain would sense something was amiss with the 'touch'.
I think his death was meant to illustrate that although the young gunslingers were talented, they were not seasoned or experienced and still susceptible to frayed nerves which can lead to mistakes.
"You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think." - Duma Key
zoneseek@thedarktower.com
Maybe it wasn't a glammer. Maybe it was ka's will...
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I agree. You get untrained, untested, young solders in a brutal war, you are going to end up with serious mistakes.
Funny how it mirrors the times doesn't it?
Edit--and should this be titled "Alain's Fate"?
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
Yes, Matt, I think you are correct, it should be.
Plus Wizard & Glass was the retelling of a tragedy. Usually tonnes of nice guys die in these things.
"You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think." - Duma Key
zoneseek@thedarktower.com
Hard as it may be to swallow, and I do find it hard, I have to agree with the 'inexperienced' argument. Young, tired, night-time, frayed nerves, but the more you think on it it gets even harder to accept. Did Sai King mayhap give too little thought to that one short sentence?
Same, to some extent, has to apply to Roland's killing of his mother? Yes there was glammer there for sure - yet he realised his error within a split second but could not call back the bullet. This one I can accept easier though - probably because someone deliberately caused it, which I don't believe to be the case with Alain.
This is the only answer but for me it's almost unacceptable because it's okay (it's not okay but beliavable) that one gusnlinger can make such a mistake but both of them? At the same time?
Maybe Cuthber trusted Roland so much... that he didn't pay enough attention he just followed him. I don't know.
Roland would have understood.
Yes, I hadn't thought about it in that way, but you might make it a little more plausible with that thought.
Certainly it would not be surprising that, if Roland drwas and fires in the night 'Bert would feel not just safe to do so, but obliged to!
I remember when this was first hinted at in the books, I was always under the impression that Roland killed one of his friends because of some act of betrayal. Then, when it was explained further, it being an accident by Roland and Cuthbert, I was a little disappointed.
sameI remember when this was first hinted at in the books, I was always under the impression that Roland killed one of his friends because of some act of betrayal. Then, when it was explained further, it being an accident by Roland and Cuthbert, I was a little disappointed.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why did you have such an impression?
Roland would have understood.
Exactly the same for me, especially after reading Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came. I was expecting something much better.I remember when this was first hinted at in the books, I was always under the impression that Roland killed one of his friends because of some act of betrayal. Then, when it was explained further, it being an accident by Roland and Cuthbert, I was a little disappointed.
Letti, there is a passage that I am referring to...it may be in The Gunslinger or Drawing..but it's just mentioned in passing that "he shot/killed his own friend." The Roland that we knew from the first two books, I feel, was very capable of shooting his own friend if that friend was a traitor. I just thought it was headed in that direction.
Oh, I see. Thank you for the information.
Anyway, yeah I can imagine Roland doing it.
Roland would have understood.
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