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Thread: Keystone World *DT7 spoilers*

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    :radioactive: Keystone World *DT7 spoilers*

    What is the Keystone World, and why is it significant? There's a passing comment that is bothersome to me in DT VII, "this is the only world which anything matters, at least in some significant way" I guess its just more reader naivete, but this is really bothering me. Keystone World represents the difference between Co-Op City (Eddie's where) and Brooklyn (the "real one"). This is empirical evidence (at least within the tale) and suggests that it isn't just a case of reader naivete in regards to time only moving one way. Clear disparity between realities in my opinion.

    Okay, your thoughts.

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    Gunslinger Daghain is on a distinguished road Daghain's Avatar

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    I tend to take things at fact value, so when Roland says in Keystone World time only runs one way and death is for keeps, I tend to believe him.



    "People, especially children, aren't measured by their IQ. What's important about them is whether they're good or bad, and these children are bad." ~ Alan Bernard


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    I tend not to believe any Roland's ideas at all. His is such a peculiar jumble of lore, myths, quotations, long-lost books and teachings, read only partly, or orally retold, old superstitions handed down from generation to generation, and all that in a world that is moving on and, thus, obliterating old meanings and mising up contexts... a world when information can't be saved, at that - books are scarce and other carriers nonexistent... he is not a liar like Walter (though sometimes he is), but he is definitely not a reliable source of knowledge.

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    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daghain View Post
    I tend to take things at fact value, so when Roland says in Keystone World time only runs one way and death is for keeps, I tend to believe him.
    So you believed him when he believed they were beyond ka?
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    I tend not to believe any Roland's ideas at all. His is such a peculiar jumble of lore, myths, quotations, long-lost books and teachings, read only partly, or orally retold, old superstitions handed down from generation to generation, and all that in a world that is moving on and, thus, obliterating old meanings and mising up contexts... a world when information can't be saved, at that - books are scarce and other carriers nonexistent... he is not a liar like Walter (though sometimes he is), but he is definitely not a reliable source of knowledge.
    i'm with you on this one. roland is a lot of things, but an authority on metaphysics he is not. he and the tet are capable of fine speculation based on what they experience, but we should not confuse that with the actual rules of the way the universe works. i don't recall any authority on any specific rules of keystone world other than this character-driven speculation.

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    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    i'm with you on this one. roland is a lot of things, but an authority on metaphysics he is not. he and the tet are capable of fine speculation based on what they experience, but we should not confuse that with the actual rules of the way the universe works. i don't recall any authority on any specific rules of keystone world other than this character-driven speculation.
    This is exactly how I feel.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Okay folks, points (all good) taken. But what about the fact that Eddie's home is not the real Brooklyn. What I meant by empirical proof is simply tangible evidences that suggest significance to the Keystone world. This is beyond Roland and his unreliability. What about this?

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    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    The only thing I thought that made the Keystone World special was that Stephen King lives there. All the other worlds are the ones he created. As far as Jake existing in the Keystone World, that is possible, but Jake lives in other worlds because King created him in those worlds. So, it is entirely possible to "die" in the Keystone World yet still "come back."

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Monte, I'm inclined to agree except for the fact that King didn't create all of the multiverse did he? If there is an infinitude existing on a blade of purple grass, then might it be possible to presume that King didn't create all of them. If it was Gan, then the Keystone World is significant for other reasons. DT VII also mentions that Roland's world is a twinner of Keystone as well. If thats the case, then King couldn't have created it because it existed millenia before the Keystone World which hasn't "moved on" yet.

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    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    I guess I don't see why King couldn't have created them simply because "they existed for a milenia." I understand your argument but those worlds existing for however long only exist because that is how King created and wrote them. Also, I suppose it may not only be King that created the multiverse, but previous writer's of Gan's/Roland's tale.

    Also, Mid-World and Keystone are Twins of each other, not Twinners.

    Good thread, hopefully, it can help me sort out my own beliefs.

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Twins, not Twinners, got it. Thank you sir. Long day.

    What I was suggesting is that Mid-World wasn't created by King bc King didn't exist until he was born in the Keystone World. If Mid-World is real in the same way that Keystone is, then how could King have created it? The prim, its recession, the Old ones etc.. these "really" happened and aren't false like Co-Op City. Do you see what I'm saying? I'm not sure how to word it.

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    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by obscurejude View Post
    Twins, not Twinners, got it. Thank you sir. Long day.

    What I was suggesting is that Mid-World wasn't created by King bc King didn't exist until he was born in the Keystone World. If Mid-World is real in the same way that Keystone is, then how could King have created it? The prim, its recession, the Old ones etc.. these "really" happened and aren't false like Co-Op City. Do you see what I'm saying? I'm not sure how to word it.
    Ohhhh, I get you. Well, I personally believe that Keystone and Mid-World can still be Twins but yet Mid-World is on a different level of the Tower..meaning King created it. The only world King didn't create is the Keystone World and everything else is "different" because it comes from him, including Mid-World. I don't think this fact negates those two worlds being Twins. I hope that makes sense.

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    So, what does the two worlds being Twins mean? Mid World comes chronologically before, I think. I took Twin to mean they were created by the same thing.

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    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    For me, "twins" in the Dark Tower is only a way to illustrate similarities between two things. *shrugs*

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    How convenient Monte. Am I the only one in left field here?

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Monte, if King didn't create Keystone, but somehow facilitated it, Do you think its possible that the author of Arthurian tales did the same for Mid World? I'm having a hard time believing that King created Mid World. I mean isn't Roland unique because he doesn't have a twin (or so the consensus seems to be). Seems that if he was created by King, he would have a twin.

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    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by obscurejude View Post
    Monte, if King didn't create Keystone, but somehow facilitated it, Do you think its possible that the author of Arthurian tales did the same for Mid World? I'm having a hard time believing that King created Mid World. I mean isn't Roland unique because he doesn't have a twin (or so the consensus seems to be). Seems that if he was created by King, he would have a twin.
    Yes, it is very possible.
    Hmm, perhaps King only created the other levels of "Earth" and not Mid-World. Nice point. That would indeed explain Roland's lack of a twin.
    Interesting. This makes me want to revisit my Twins & Twinners thread....

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    *follows Monte*

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    Along the Path of the Beam Childe 007 is on a distinguished road Childe 007's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by obscurejude View Post
    What is the Keystone World, and why is it significant? There's a passing comment that is bothersome to me in DT VII, "this is the only world which anything matters, at least in some significant way" I guess its just more reader naivete, but this is really bothering me. Keystone World represents the difference between Co-Op City (Eddie's where) and Brooklyn (the "real one"). This is empirical evidence (at least within the tale) and suggests that it isn't just a case of reader naivete in regards to time only moving one way. Clear disparity between realities in my opinion.

    Okay, your thoughts.
    Though not literally the "real" world - this is the one where Stephen King the character/ writer lives. The one where Tet Corp. has built it's Black Tower in New York and is in constant corporate warfare with Sombra and North Central Positronics. This is The Keystone world - once you've been and done there are no do overs.

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    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    Except for Jake, of course.

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Childe 007, I think you should probably read the other posts. This much has been established...

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    Along the Path of the Beam Childe 007 is on a distinguished road Childe 007's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonteGss View Post
    Except for Jake, of course.
    You think Jake got a Do Over?

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Again, its always helpful to read what has already been written. I mean, seriously dude.

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    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    So jude, you think Mid-World was the "first" world, the basepoint of the Tower? And the Rose with Keystone Earth followed it? Or did that exist/begin at the same time?

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    I think so, yes. I often view Roland's quest in terms of saving Keystone from the fate of Mid-World. I think that explains the time difference, why Mid World is so far ahead. I also read an interview King gave back in 84 when he said that the Dark Tower series was very concerned with some of the dangers of technology.

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